Intro

SPEAKER_05 0:18

Welcome to Steel Watching, the podcast for Remington Steel fans. And I am Eric, and I am constantly astounded that a generation that grew up playing Tetris is unable to effectively and efficiently load luggage into the boot of a car.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

That would be me. I grew up playing Tetris and I also cannot load luggage into the boot of a car. So guilty. Boy, I feel called out. We're only like 30 seconds in here. That hurts. Ouch. And I'm Sarah, and I'm about to get my wisdom teeth out, which means as of our next recording, I will be less wise. So yeah. Enjoy the wisdom while it lasts. It's about to about to go.

SPEAKER_05 1:02

I just hope you don't get your eye teeth out anytime soon.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

There's teeth in my eyes?

SPEAKER_05 1:07

Yeah. Anyway, uh, we are at season four, episode three. Steel blushing. At first air. Oh, do we have anything we need to talk about first? I can't think of any. Um, I don't know. I don't have anything in my notes.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

So I yeah, if we do, I don't think I don't we've forgotten about it, and we'll figure it out and we'll apologize after.

SPEAKER_05 1:30

Yeah. What was it? Uh it's always better better to ask forgiveness than permission.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Than permission, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:36

Yes. Yeah. Anyway,

Discussion

SPEAKER_05 1:37

Steel

Episode details and guest cast

SPEAKER_05 1:38

Blushing, season four, episode three, first aired on October 22, 1985, written by John Wirth, a name we've heard before, and directed by Alexander Singer. A name we haven't heard. I don't think we have heard before.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

So I don't think so.

SPEAKER_05 1:53

That was my that was my.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

And also co-string now, and I don't here's the thing. I don't know how to pronounce her name anymore. I always pronounced it Nana Visitor, but I remember being at a science fiction convention when I met her. Lovely human, by the way, and her name being announced as Nana Visitor. So Nana? Nana, yeah. So I don't know if it's Nana or Nana, so I I just wanted to like put that out there because one way or another, one of us would be pronouncing it wrong. So I was like, Well, yeah. She starred, for those who don't know, she was Major Kira Norice in Deep Space Nine, and part of the reason my daughter's name is Kira is because we love that character so much. So yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:39

But she's also a visitor. V the lizard people.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Yeah, that's true. She was, yeah. I forgot about that. You're right.

SPEAKER_05 2:49

Well, I mean, I don't think she was in the show, but just her last name, visitor, that makes her a visitor.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 2:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

I'm Googling at how to pronounce her name because it's gonna bug me. I could have done this before. I realize this now.

SPEAKER_05 3:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Oh, so it is Nana Visitor.

SPEAKER_05 3:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Okay.

unknown 3:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:07

Na na na na na na hey hey hey. Goodbye.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Um, but yeah, I just wanted

Nana Visitor's standout guest performance

SPEAKER_01 3:13

to point that out because she, even though it's a small part, she is a phenomenal actress. Her character is amazing in Deep Space Nine, but more over than that, she's one of the few actors that you'll encounter that and I don't have any disrespect for an actor that just sees their their job as a job. Like, I don't I don't have an issue with that. I know some people take issue with it if they don't love their character and they don't really love it like the fans love it. But she does. To hear her speak about Deep Space Nine and and her character on Deep Space Nine and how much she was like, she's so passionate about her character and about that show and her role. And I just it was wonderful hearing her talk and hearing that passion come out of come from her was awesome. So she's she's fantastic.

SPEAKER_05 3:59

Well, you mean she's not um she's not like Alexander Dane from Galaxy Quest. By Grab Thars Hammer, yeah, no, she's not by Grab Thor's Hammer.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

You shall be avenged, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:17

I won't say the bloody line again.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

You broke the bloody ship. No, to be fair, I like again, I have no disrespect for actors who don't love their character that way because it is a job, it is a job they're doing, and if it's a job they do well, I'm happy, right? I'm happy one way or another. But it's it there is always that special, like I don't know, it just makes it extra special when you hear an actor talk about a character as if it's a special friend and and advocate for that character and defend that character. And you know, she just she was that she was really, really wonderful when I met her. So I just love this episode as part of the reason she's in it.

SPEAKER_05 4:54

Well, to continue very, very briefly on this rabbit hole and sidetrack.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_05 5:00

The character of Guy Fliegman in Galaxy Quest played by Sam Raquell.

unknown 5:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:06

He he was his was supposed to it by what I've heard, his was supposed to be a minor character who was only in the movie briefly.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

Which is hilarious because that's his character on the show, too.

SPEAKER_05 5:16

Yeah, but he kept ad-libbing these these things that were so great that they basically from what I understand, pretty much everything he said was ad-libbed. And they just they just had to keep him in the sh in the in the movie because he was just killing.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

It's great. It's great. Sam Rockwell, that's Sam Rockwell, if you've ever seen him in anything. But yeah, it's totally not anything to do with Remington Steel. We've just gone down a rabbit hole, folks. We apologize. Watch Galaxy Quest. Keep going, Eric.

SPEAKER_05 5:42

Yes. Anyway, uh, where are we? Yes. Uh I went with the TV guide listing. Okay. Uh although

The synopsis gives away the episode's twist

SPEAKER_05 5:50

the others are still interesting. After Laura's doctored likeness appears in a porno magazine, Steele can't understand why she's protecting the photographer from clients who want the man's files and from the FBI.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

I think it's interesting that the TV guide deliberately put in that it was doctored. Because you don't find that out until three quarters of the way into the episode.

SPEAKER_04 6:14

Right?

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Up until that point, you think it's her picture, and it kind of spoils it a little bit.

unknown 6:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

It would have it I I wonder if it's just because if they had put Laura's picture appears in a porno magazine, it would have been too scandalous or they would have gotten complaints or something. I that's I can only guess that's the reason.

SPEAKER_05 6:34

Well, I But it's kind of a shame. I would think that um they were looking at the audience reaction and if they saw this, they might lose some viewership for that episode.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Well, that's what I mean by like complaints and stuff. They might yeah. But I I don't know, I think you could have re-worded it away in such a way that doesn't give away that it's doctored. You could have maybe said, I don't know, a racy picture of Laura appears in a magazine.

SPEAKER_05 7:01

You wouldn't have to say what kind of magazine, and maybe that would be enough to Or word it in such a way as to give the impression that it might or might not be Laura. The image of a woman who looks remarkably like Laura appears in, you know.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Or is that Laura's picture in a porno magazine? Still the snow. Something like that. Yeah. So it gives a question mark, and then yeah, I don't know. I just it's uh it is kind of a shame that they gave away that aspect of it in the description because I would have been annoyed.

SPEAKER_05 7:32

I I think I think I might change my mind and go with the original synopsis.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Yeah, I guess I changed his mind here.

SPEAKER_05 7:43

Well, uh, because I do like the the synopsis. It says when modest Laura turns up in the buff as a magazine's babe of the month, and the accredited photographer hires the steel agency for protection, a puzzled Remington tries to fit the pieces together.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

See, that's good. That's that gives it that ambiguity, and it still like gives you that, ooh, okay. Laura's doing what in a magazine now? Uh-huh. What? Hey, at least she got babe of the month, right?

SPEAKER_05 8:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

If I were Laura, I'd be well no, I'd be furious, but you know, maybe a tiny part, a tiny part would be like, okay, if they're gonna do this to me, at least I'm babe of the month. Like, yeah, let's be clear here.

SPEAKER_05 8:23

Well, anyway, let's get into it. Enough sidetracks. Yeah. Okay,

The episode opens with an FBI raid

SPEAKER_05 8:30

the episode opens with the sound of military-style music and the visual of a nondescript sedan with two men in it pulling into a parking lot outside of the Century Towers, home of the offices of Remington Steel Investigations. They park and two men in suits, looking official, get out and begin walking through the parking lot. Now, one thing that bugged me about this before I'd gotten through the episode and I remembered, because I'd forgotten that.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Right.

SPEAKER_05 8:58

Yeah, um, okay. Um spoiler alert, if you haven't seen the episode, turn turn the audio off for a couple of seconds. I'd forgotten that they aren't real FBI men.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Oh, they're not? Sorry.

SPEAKER_05 9:10

I know. Uh but it bugged me because their car was not black. And yeah, you know, it's like, okay, that's that seems a little odd because usually, especially back then, you know, your government officials, government agents, yeah. Uh they generally black vehicles because it's probably in a sense the most nondescript vehicle that you can say.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Black, white, or gray, yeah, would be your most because they're because they're your base model, like all cars that come as a base model come in those three shades, right? And then if you want color, you have to spend more to get so that's why they've got more of those cars on the road. But yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_05 9:51

Black it's more of a brownish, maybe almost a copper color, at least in the light. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Uh so it's that could have been the first clue that they weren't actually FBI. Like maybe that was intentional.

SPEAKER_05 10:03

Yeah, it could be. Anyway, when they get out, one of them is carrying a thin folio, and then the men take the elevator to the 11th floor, walk to the front doors of the agency, pause, look at each other, and then with a simultaneous nod, they swing both doors open dramatically and walk in. And I love this.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

They approach Mildred is awesome. I'm just gonna, yeah, because I want to let you go and just do it because it's just perfect, but like this whole bit, the timing, chef's kiss, it's perfect.

SPEAKER_05 10:35

So they approach Mildred's desk and they reach inside their pockets of their suit jackets as they do so. They each pull out an ID wallet, flash them at Mildred, then in succession and flat, official dragnet tones of voice, they identify themselves. Colby. Rhodes, Mildred mimics them. Krebs, FBI, Colby says. Steele, Rhodes asks. Mildred uses a pen to point towards Steele's office, saying, Inside. As the two men began to walk towards Steele's office, Mildred gets up, following. Coffee, tea, Colby answers. Cream, sugar, Rhodes answers. Lumps, two.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

I wonder if Mildred, before they sit, like the minute she saw the badges, I wonder if Mildred's first thought was, Oh crap, we're caught. Because the phony passport, this is literally right after the passport that they've forged, essentially. And now the FBI are showing up at their office. So it like it, yeah. I just that's kind of funny. Because she's right on it. She's like, All right, let's go.

unknown 11:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:35

And you know, the thing is, obviously, we when we find out that these guys are not legitimate FBI, yeah, you know that their ID and their badges are fake. They have to be because they're not real agents.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Oh, for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:49

But you know, sometimes people ask, well, why didn't they know that it was fake? Why you looked at them, why couldn't you tell? Well, have you ever seen an FBI agent's ID? Have you ever seen a police officer's official police ID? No. No. So I mean, it's the kind of thing where anybody could forge it, and as long as it looks real, nobody's gonna look twice at it. They're just gonna accept.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I've I've never I've never seen an FBI badge because I I don't I'm Canadian, right? But I've never I've also never seen, I guess it would be an RCMP badge. I don't know. I've I wouldn't know what an official credential looks like if it was right in front of me. So yeah, you're right. I wouldn't know.

SPEAKER_05 12:36

So anyway, they uh are near the two men are nearly at Steele's door, and Mildred cuts them off, standing between them and the door. Then she knocks on it twice. Inside the office, Steele is in his chair, kicked back, relaxing, feet on his desk, reading the newspaper.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Oh, yes. Hard at work.

SPEAKER_05 12:54

Mildred opens the door and then precedes the two men into the office. Steele lowers his paper, and as the men arrive at the desk, they repeat their stirring performance. Colby, Rhodes, FBI, Mildred concludes. Steele sits up, and they've got his undivided attention. And he's got a case of nerves because as you just said, Mildred would probably assume, Steele is probably assuming the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

Passport.

SPEAKER_05 13:20

Yeah, passport fraud.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Yeah.

A magazine exposes Laura's secret

SPEAKER_05 13:23

So next, Colby sets the folio on the desk, opens it up, revealing a magazine with a female figure in red on the cover.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

And from what we see, what did you see all the headlines on the on the front?

SPEAKER_05 13:36

From what we see, it appears to be a Playboy style magazine. Colby picks up the magazine, tosses it towards Steele, and then we see it's titled Bedside Babes. The cover is a woman in a bikini, wearing a tool belt and holding up a jackhammer. Because of course, that's how you dress. And it is it is indeed the October issue.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Yeah, that's funny. Like they they really spared, like they really went all out with this. And it's what's funny about it is that I had never actually gotten a really good look at the front cover of that magazine until I watched it for this podcast on my larger TV, and then I paused it and I was like looking at the so they must have because you would not have assumed anybody with television quality like we had back when we first originally watched it would even see some of these headlines. But Holly Gets Hammered is the main one, which I love.

SPEAKER_05 14:31

But above that, the the the heading into that is sex on the job, Holly gets hammered.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

And then uh uncovering the city's trashiest beaches.

SPEAKER_05 14:41

Yes. Gold Confessions of a Hash Slinger.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

Victoria, an autumn affair.

SPEAKER_05 14:48

The casting couch of fantasy.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

That that I what is that an inside joke? Is that like a wink to the to the industry? Probably like they really went out of their way to create some headlines that seem legit for what magazine.

SPEAKER_05 15:08

If you saw this on a on a a magazine rack next to Playboy and whatever else, you wouldn't you wouldn't even question it.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

No, you you really wouldn't. And so it's i that's why I think it's it's hilarious, especially because I mean they obviously didn't create a whole magazine, they just created a cover. Right. And whatever's underneath it is just your typical magazine because we don't actually ever see the picture in question, obviously.

SPEAKER_05 15:32

Darn.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

I know, but it's not even Laura. So oh, and that's another thing I wanted to talk about because I had a couple of people ask me, you know how there's there is a fan theory amongst Remington Steel fans, uh, especially with regards to season four, that by season four they were actually sleeping together and the it just kind of like went unacknowledged.

SPEAKER_05 15:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

It's one of those fan theories that isn't technically canon, but there's a lot of fans that subscribe to it because there's a lot more intimacy between them in this season that wasn't there in the previous season and was there in season two, but kind sort came and went, right? I don't I like I personally go with what we're told in canon, but there's another part of me that says you've been in a relationship with this man for four years. Come on. Like I don't know, I'm not approved by any stretch of the imagination or somebody that's like says that you have to do this or you don't, but like you've got Pierce Brosnan in front of you and you're you're not. But this episode would be one of the few things that would indicate that they're not sleeping together because he opens that a couple of times and he fully believes that that naked body is Laura's until she says otherwise. And it I'm sorry, but if you've seen it up close and personal, theoretically you'd know.

SPEAKER_05 16:48

Well, yes and no. See, the the one of the things that most people don't realize or recognize is that in many, many of those magazines, uh what you're looking at is not really strictly a photograph because it's been so heavily airbrushed.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

Well, they didn't have a lot of that technology back then.

SPEAKER_05 17:14

Well, no, no, no, no. Where like they had the digital manually airbrushed. They would okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:21

And I guess this this is kind of well since you've opened the door, let's walk through it.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

We we we gotta do it, right?

SPEAKER_05 17:32

And and certainly younger viewers of the show who've only lived in the digital age uh um are probably in most cases not going to be aware, and even some folks who are older aren't uh necessarily aware of all the details. But all this stuff was done on film, and there was no digital editing. So it wasn't like you could take it on film and then scan it and digitally edit it. No, it was all done manually. So you'd take film, put it in a camera, take the photograph, you'd process the film to develop a latent uh the latent image, which then comes up most often as a negative. There was positive film, but usually it was a negative. Then you would make a physical print from that in a dark room. And what would happen for these magazines is they would take that print and they would somebody with a an actual physical airbrush would take that print and airbrush all the body flaws out of it. And if you look at some of those magazines, especially from that that era, they were heavily airbrushed. I mean, if if you aren't familiar enough with with photos and airbrushed uh the appearance of airbrushed photos, you may not recognize it, but if you were to see the original versus the final result, it it it's often starkly different. And so it's entirely possible that the fan theory is correct, and Steele wouldn't necessarily have recognized that because it was so heavily airbrushed.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

I was I was thinking more along the lines of the type of body that you usually see in magazines like that. Usually they have um let's just say a lot going on up top. Now, I don't have any I mean, we don't we don't ever see the picture, so I cannot say for certain whether or not this woman's body was, let's just say, stacked in the upper uh chestal region. Uh, but I would I would assume it would be because those are usually the kinds of women that appeared in those magazines, right? You didn't usually get women who were slightly smaller. That would just be my natural assumption, is that one look at her, let's just say the upper chest portion would tell you that it wasn't Laura, but maybe not. Maybe he did match her with somebody with this with a similar body type. Yeah, it's entirely possible.

SPEAKER_05 19:57

Regardless of whether they had did or they didn't, they had or they hadn't, they were or they weren't. That difference that you're describing would be noticeable in either case.

SPEAKER_03 20:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:09

I mean, if even if you you haven't with somebody, uh you can tell the difference you know between medium, large, and extra large.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Well, but in Steele's case, it could just be wishful thinking, right? Like he takes one look and he's like, hey, okay. Well shots a magazine and he's just like, yeah, that that I'm just saying, right? Like it's like the Sears catalog wish list only, but for Mr. Steele.

SPEAKER_05 20:35

I just had a flash and I don't remember the exact circumstance, but you were talking about the size of the upper area. And I remember a buddy and I were talking to somebody once, and it was a woman, female, and the conversation was about boobs. Rack size. Uh and we're we're talking about about it, and all of a sudden, out of the middle of nowhere, this gal says, Well, you know what they say? Mouthful or a handful, anything more is wasted. It's like, uh and of course, as soon as she said it was it was like I did I say that out loud?

SPEAKER_01 21:26

There's obviously other things that can be different about a woman's body with like and and you're right, airbrushing might take care of some of that. But stuff like, say, for example, larger versus smaller nipples or something like that. I don't know. It just seems odd that if they were sleeping together, that and to be fair, he only looked at it very briefly in that one second and shut it again. But I refuse to believe he didn't take another little peeky peek throughout the rest of the episode when he got the chance.

SPEAKER_05 21:52

Yeah, but the the fact that there was even a question in Steele's mind means that regardless of whether they were or weren't the image that was presented was close enough that he didn't question it. Anyway, Steele, as you say, looks at the magazine, picks it up, looks in it, uncertain at the point, and uh then reads the title of the

Steele tries to explain the incriminating photo

SPEAKER_05 22:13

magazine out loud. Colby says, page 46, babe of the month. And Steele flips through the pages, getting to page 46, looks at it, and then shocked, closes the magazine and looks up at the man saying, Good lord.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

It's I Pierce Brosnan. Again, this is one of those you bow down to his physical comedy moments because he just looks so puzzled that that innocent babe expression when they hand him the magazine, like, why are you handing me this porno? And then he opens it, shuts it immediately. Good lord.

SPEAKER_05 22:47

Just it couldn't have been more perfect.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

It's great.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

He closes the magazine, pulls it down out of his eyesight, and then looks up in a way as if it's almost like he's it's almost like he's gotten caught doing something he shouldn't be doing, even though they handed him the magazine and told him to look on that page. He he looks scared as if Laura's going to come charging in at any second and rip his head off. It's great.

SPEAKER_05 23:14

Yeah, and as Mildred moves around to Steele's side of the desk to see what the deal is, Colby asks, Well, you know her then. And holding the magazine up for Mildred to see, Steele responds to the question saying he obviously doesn't know her as well as she thought.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

That's funny. I like that.

SPEAKER_05 23:30

And of course, as Mildred sees the picture, her mouth just drops open in shock.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

Yep. Right?

SPEAKER_05 23:35

Colby asks Steele to explain to them what Laura Holt, private investigator, is doing in a publication of that sort.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

And this is where their alarm bells should be going off because why would the FBI care? I mean, they explain, they give an excuse in a minute, but it just seems I don't know. That to me would be like and okay.

SPEAKER_05 23:56

Well at this point, you're probably not thinking that far ahead. You're still trying to process what you just saw. Yeah. And try trying to come up with some sort of explanation for it in your head. And so when they do come up with this story, you just you just go with it. So, anyway, as Steele is stumbling around for an answer to their question as to why she is in this sort of a publication, uh, all the while exchanging looks with Mildred and both looking at the photo, he finally says that, well, obviously, she's on a case. Mildred uh adds undercover as she nods. Yeah, yeah, that's the story. We're sticking to it.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

She's yeah, but she's not under much.

SPEAKER_05 24:44

My next note. Well, apparently not very undercover if their reaction is any indication. So yeah, same thing you said.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

Yeah, only I stole it from Buffy. Xander goes undercover.

SPEAKER_05 24:59

Drinking game, people. Yeah, drinking game.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Well, he okay, so he goes undercover in a season two episode on the swim team. So he comes out in a tiny speedo. And when Buffy and Willow look at him, they say, What are you doing? And he goes, I'm undercover. And Willow says, Not under much. Or actually, I think it's Buffy that says that, but yeah. In this case, it applies, okay?

SPEAKER_05 25:18

Yes. Anyway,

The FBI pressures Steele for information

SPEAKER_05 25:21

uh, Rhodes states that the photographer is somebody named Douglas Vienhoff, then asks if the name rings a bell. Standing, Steele stumbles to respond, then smiles as if remembering and says, Yes, Vienhoff. He smiles at Mildred, telling her, the Viennoff matter. Yes. Mildred goes along with the improv, shaking her head as if remembering, and then shakes her head as in as if in resignation, telling the agents, a sleazy job, but somebody had to do it. Colby tells Steele that he uh must, of course, then be aware that Vinoff is wanted for interstate trafficking in pornographic materials. Shocking, isn't it? Steele responds. Colby continues, stating that according to his appointment book, Laura was the last person to see him and that she might know where he is. Moving around the desk toward the agents in an effort to appear amiable, Steele assures them that as soon as Miss Holt gets in, they shall be the first ones to know. After all, the Remington Steele Agency prides itself on its cooperation with the authorities.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

He's practically like shaking at this point, right? Because it's uh you gotta think the first thing that entered his head was, oh crap, they know about the passport. The second thing that entered his head would be, oh my god, why what the hell is Laura doing this back? Third thing, okay, they're asking for f like he doesn't know which way is up. Yeah, yes, sir, sir, we'll do whatever you say, sir. Just cool.

SPEAKER_05 26:50

Just make him happy, get him out of there.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:52

Well, Colby, attempting to take advantage of Steele's offer of cooperation, suggests that Steele let them have a look at the agency files. You know, in the spirit of cooperation. Steele quickly agrees, then bumps Mildred his arm, telling her to look into that. Mildred, IRS fraud squad inspector mode, kicking in, gives them a hard look and says, sure, as long as they have a warrant.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Do you think sh do okay, so do you think she was doing this because she like she obviously knows what's going on, right?

SPEAKER_05 27:23

And she was trying to none of none of that Steele doesn't know what's going on.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

No, but she she knows about the Vienhoff matter and that he's hiding he's in hiding because she calls him later and I don't think so.

SPEAKER_05 27:34

No, he no, he calls that her. He calls the officer.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

She she definitely appears like she knew because she she says a couple of things that give away that she's she was aware of it the whole time. She just was told not to tell Steel. I thought that was pretty notable because it's the first time she's ever after finding out, the first thing she does is she actively hides a case from him.

SPEAKER_05 28:02

I I I don't know, I never got the impression that she knew what was going on.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Well, when he calls her, she says, Does Miss Hole know where you are? Like she speaks to him as if she's spoken to him before. There's a very familiar back and forth with that phone call. She takes his down his food order, she like she knows that Laura's been hiding him. She definitely sounds like she knows Laura's been hiding him, which is why I was wondering if she like is demanding the warrant either because she's not sure what Laura would say or she smells a fake from the get-go.

SPEAKER_05 28:45

I don't know. I I ne I just I just never got the impression that Mildred knew about the case.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

I wonder if she smells a fake, even here.

SPEAKER_05 29:05

I think more it's just a matter of she recognizes that Steele is vamping. That he doesn't know what's going on. That as far as he knows, there isn't a case file for Vienhoff. She is not aware of a case file for Vienhoff. So in order to avoid revealing that fact that there is no case file because there's no case, and and and it's obvious to her that Steele knows nothing about anything like that, I think she is doing this because the only way to prevent them from or prevent Steele from handing them the case files or offering to let them look for the case files that don't exist is to say no, just go get a warrant. So I I never got the impression that Mildred knew what was going on. Certainly not at this point.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

Alright, we'll get we'll get there in the script because I really think she did, but yeah. If anyone else thinks so, if you don't think so.

SPEAKER_05 30:12

If you, Sarah, if you get to a point where you think you've won this argument, no victory dance. No, no, no, no, you know, any of that stuff, okay? Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Can I can I can I sing a song? No. Just figured I'd ask.

SPEAKER_05 30:33

Anyway, uh, Rhodes

Mildred resists the FBI's search

SPEAKER_05 30:35

at at Mildred's comment about, yeah, sure, as long as they have a warrant, Rhodes steps forward and suggests that surely they could make an exception this one time. And Steele gets an uncomfortable and awkward smile on his face as Mildred leans forward and challenges them. Listen, pal, how long do you think we'd stay in business if we opened our files to every clown who came by flashing a badge? Colby flatly states that he could walk out that door and be back here with a court order in 30 minutes and could close them down in a day. But Mildred is on a roll, telling Colby not to threaten them with bureaucratic beeswax. After all, she didn't spend six years with the IRS fraud squad for nothing. And Steele Steele's almost shaking.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

He's like, Yes, what are you doing? What is going on here?

SPEAKER_05 31:20

Yes. And in that panic, he asks the agents to excuse them for a moment. And he leads Mildred to the interconnecting office and he assures her that he's not meaning to criticize her, but then proceeds to criticize her, asking her what she thinks she's doing. She tells him that client files are privileged information. Well, Steele's panic is not subsiding. No, but they're the FBI, Mildred. You remember London? You do remember London? Five passports, deportation. Once they begin excavating my past, and he makes a throat slit motion. Yeah. Well, Mildred tries to calm him down, telling him to relax. Non-cooperation between agencies is a backbone of bureaucracy. By the time Colby and Rhodes get back here with a warrant, Steele will be six feet under.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

This is this is not she's not wrong. I mean, try to get try to get two agencies to contact each other, and it's it's impossible, right? So unless unless, of course, they're coming after you for something.

SPEAKER_05 32:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Then they're like this.

SPEAKER_05 32:19

They really, really, really want to get you. Yeah. Then, as in London, by any means necessary. Yep. Hang the rules. We'll just do it.

SPEAKER_03 32:30

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 32:31

It's too important to let it be left alone to simply follow the rules. Anyway, they go back into Steele's office only to find it deserted. Panic resurging, Steele tells Mildred that she'd better start carving that tombstone right away. Then as he closes the door to the reception area, he tells her to get him the file on the Vienhoff case. Mildred tells him there isn't one. Steele asks what she means by that. She tells him that what she means is what she said. They don't have a client named Wienhoff.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

I win! I win! I'm I think she's lying to him.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

She's she's she's covering for Laura. Because Laura didn't want him to want him to know about the boudoir photography business or anything. Like she I I think she's lying to. I do. Any other comments and opinions are are are welcome and encouraged, but I think she's she's lying because Laura asked her to, and because she now knows who's really in charge, this is her first little mini rebellion after being betrayed and lied to.

SPEAKER_05 33:33

No, not buying it. Anyway, nearing a full panic, Steele grabs the phone, calls directory assistance, and asks for a listing for, and he pauses as if his mind has gone blank due to stage fright. Mildred prompts him, Veenoff. If Mildred was hiding it, she wouldn't be helping him. Steele tells directory assistants, Veen off photography. Next,

Steele investigates Veenhof's photography studio

SPEAKER_05 33:56

we see the limo pull up to a building in a somewhat run-down part of town. Uh it's a it's a less than glamorous neighborhood and it's full of nondescript buildings. Anyway, in front of one of the buildings, Steele exits the limo and walks toward the double doors of one which has a sign on it that reads Veenoff Photography. Looking around to ensure that the scene is clear as he approaches the door, he reaches into his inner jacket pocket. And since the door is locked, he also unlocks it with his handy dandy professional lockpick tools.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

Then steps inside.

SPEAKER_05 34:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Still hasn't figured out how to use them, but she's got one.

SPEAKER_05 34:33

She's got one. And it's getting smaller by the day as she breaks more and more pieces of it. She's got away inside. He's walking down the hallway that, although cluttered, actually presents a much nicer and classier uh appearance than the outside of the building would suggest. And there are what appear to be the backsides of photo studio backgrounds leaning up against one wall, a potted plant, possibly fake, a rack of brightly colored clothes and lingerie, as well as lingerie hanging from nails or hooks on the wall, and some sort of weird thing that looks as if it could be a wall decoration or possibly a comic strip version of a palm tree. Oh, for the beach setting setting. Except it doesn't really look like a palm tree. It looks more like somebody's mad fantasy horror version of a palm tree. Anyway, Steele walks past all this clutter, then turns the corner onto a stage area with several photography sets. The first is a bathroom with a bathtub, yellow shower curtain hanging behind, and potted ferns on either side, complete with a shampoo bottle and a rubber ducky, and a stool with a container of bath soaps and mirror with yellow-orange cloth, polka dotted with red and green dots draped over it. Next is another set. It's a bedroom set with a fancy headboard and footboard. The script calls for a Victorian style bed. I don't know if that's what that really is or not. Uh it's covered with quilts and pillows and various other items. There's a dressing table and a seat populated with various items and a clothes stand with clothing items and hats hanging from it, and other items that lend atmosphere to the ambiance. The third set, backed by a purple and dark red velvet background, features a couch of some sort, a chaise lounge, I guess, and a hanging.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Yeah, something like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:22

And of course, there are photographic lights, camera tripods, reflective umbrellas, and more uh photographic paraphernalia around all these sets. As Steele wanders onto the stage, he picks up the rubber ducky from the bath set, eventually setting it down on a table. Vienhoff apparently uses to hold his equipment while working. Why did he do that? I don't know. Was that just Brosnan doing a thing in the bottom?

SPEAKER_01 36:45

Yeah, I think he was just playing around with like what I guess you might do if you were in that. I have no idea. Yeah, he's probably just trying to be physically in the scene, right?

SPEAKER_04 36:56

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 36:57

Anyway, Steele walks over to a camera which is set up facing a fourth set. This time it's a beach scene with sand on the floor, a beach chair draped with a flower lay, and undefined clothing items. There's a beach ball, and of course, the requisite palm fronds. Steele disrespectfully begins playing with the camera equipment. It's not yours. Don't touch it. I'm sorry. Uh and he's looking through it as if preparing to take photographs, and he turns it around for a camera view of the various sets. And as he does, and he and he turns to face back toward the hallway, which he had come through earlier, a woman with big wavy hair and wearing a waitress uniform comes walking in. Steele stands to look at the woman as she begins to apologize, saying she had a table that wouldn't clear and her boss wouldn't let her go. Then she asks, I'm not too late, am I? Steele gets an embarrassed grin and begins himself to apologize, saying, She has the wrong person. And either not listening or not understanding, the woman says, Oh, I'm here now. We might as well do what we can, don't you think? As Steele Steele holds up and waves his hands back and forth, attempting to halt the woman's ramblings. She continues talking, saying she's a little nervous because she's never done anything like this before. And Steele, unable to stop the runaway train, admits that he's a bit new to this sort of thing himself.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:23

Reading her name as uh Jackie on her name tag from her waitress uniform, he then assumes the role of photographer. He puts his arm around her shoulders and begins to walk her out of the stage area. Addressing her by name, he asks exactly what type of photographs she had in mind. Jackie says, Well, she so was sort of hoping that he could do for her what he did for Betsy Bloomquist. Only no leather. Satin's water styles, don't you think?

SPEAKER_01 38:49

And honestly, I kind of do. Like looking at her, this is just gonna completely off the wall, but like if you look at her her face and sort of her skin tone and her hair and the way she sort of comes off as being kind of innocent, a little bit sweet. Maybe not all there, but not a you know, she doesn't come across as a leather wearing leather clad dominatrix. I would expect softer satin lingerie as opposed to something more aggressive.

unknown 39:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:22

Well, Steele agrees after he has taken a quick survey of her, and he says, yes, absolutely, no question about it. And oh, by the way, did he happen to mention to her what he does with the photographs? And with some concern, Jackie says, Well, she hopes he doesn't do anything with them.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

She just wanted to get a giant red flag if you were a customer, right?

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Would it not? I mean, you're walking into a uh a photography studio where theoretically you're going to be taking some rather racy photos. Some of them are like he he meant Finahoff mentions later that some of them keep their clothes on and some of them don't. So if the guy that you think is the photographer is asking, by the way, do you know what I do with your pictures? Yeah, you might want to just kind of rethink that. I'd be like, You're doing nothing because I'm leaving by out the door.

SPEAKER_05 40:15

Well, anyway, she says that she just wanted to give them to Mickey for a wedding present, adding, That'll surprise him, don't you think? And with a nervous tilt to his head, Steele says that he hopes it isn't too much of a surprise. Jackie tells Steele that well, you know, if he has a dressing room, she'll go slip into something a little more and she puts her hands to her face, slightly embarrassed, leaving the sentence unfinished. Steele directs her to the dressing room, tells her to take her time and breathe. Don't worry. Steele closes the door for Jackie, then begins to try to make a hasty exit.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

Except I I feel sorry for this woman. If you think about what she's just gone through, right? She she had an appointment at this studio, she couldn't get off work in time, her boss wouldn't let her. She gets there, she thinks that she's encountered the photographer, and she goes and she changes into something, you know, nice and and sex sexy or what have you, comes out in this lingerie, and then all of a sudden is attacked or in the middle of a physical altercation between two people and then and then never gets her pictures taken, presumably because Vienhoff is not there. He's hiding. So yeah, poor woman.

SPEAKER_05 41:30

Yeah. So as I said, he starts to make a hasty exit, except behind him he hears a man's voice yell, Vienhoff! And Steele turns in time to see the man throw a golf club at him. Steele falls to the floor as the club misses him, and the head of the club embeds itself in a door. As Steele gets up to his feet, golf club man runs up, pulls the club from the door, then turns, holding the club out in front of him, and begins stalking towards Steele, who is attempting to back away. Yeah. Golf club man tells Steele, who he has mistaken for Vienhoff, that if he's not going to be a human being about this, fine. It'll give him a chance to knock some sense into Vienhoff's Neanderthal skull. And the man begins to wildly swing the golf club, knocking over the clothes rack next to him. Then he demands, Now hand over those files. As they move on to the stage, Steele tries to clarify, he isn't Vienhoff. Poor Steele. The man swings the club again, knocking over the photo lights and stands, and then threatens, for the last time, give me those files. Steele responds that for the last time he isn't Wienhoff. Jackie enters the stage dressed in a corset style top with matching panties and stockings and wearing a long fur wrap, totally oblivious at the moment to the confrontation going on, asking where Mr. Vienhoff wants her.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

That doesn't steel case. I'm not Vienhoff, I'm not Wienhoff. What do you want me, Mr.

SPEAKER_00 43:01

Vienhoff? Yeah, that's that's not exactly that's not gonna help you.

SPEAKER_05 43:06

Exactly. Well, as the unidentified man presses his attack on Steele, Steele falls back onto the beach set as golf club bands begins attempting to strike at him with the club. Jackie, standing next to the bed, finally notices the activity, expresses her annoyance at the fact that they are infringing upon her hour. Yeah, that's funny.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

Come on, you guys, this is my hour.

SPEAKER_05 43:31

Steele, still on his back on the beach set, grabs a handful of sand and throws it into golf club man's face. That sounds like golf club man. The golf club man drops the club, trying to clear his eyes, giving Steele the opportunity to pick up the club, and then he blindly throws it in the direction of Jackie, who, in a panic, jumps on the bed, causing it to collapse as the golf club rips through the paper covered background behind the bedroom set. Steele gets to his feet, approaches the man who swings out wildly but blindly. Steele moves behind him, grabs him, and turns him around, then delivers the blow straight to the man's face. The man falls backwards, collapsing onto the beach chair, which then collapses underneath him. Steele grabs the camera on the nearby tripod, points it at the man, telling him to smile, and then takes a photo as we see the photostrobes flash. Must up, he turns, straightens his tie, and then walks out.

Mildred takes matters into her own hands

SPEAKER_05 44:24

Back at the office, Mildred is a- Okay, this is the scene.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

This is the one.

SPEAKER_05 44:28

I know. I know. Don't get bossy, lady. Back at the office, Mildred is hard at work. And apparently it's not time yet for her first break. First lunch, second lunch, second break or siesta.

SPEAKER_01 44:41

11 C's, after MT.

SPEAKER_05 44:43

The phone rings and she answers. The man's voice asks for Laura Holt. Mildred tells the man that she's not in, but she can take a message. We got to the man on the phone, and the man has a mustache that looks like an ill-groomed caterpillar.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

It's painful, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:58

Large horn, large, heavily uh rimmed glasses, and a utility-style vest, which is He just looks sleazy.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

You know?

SPEAKER_05 45:08

Well, it's and it's the kind of vest that's stereotypically worn by photographers who supposedly shove masses of equipment into his pockets because a camera bag is too bulky. Um I would think that a vest full of photo equipment would be bulky as well, but anyway. The man tells Mildred to tell Vinoff he called. We cut to a shot of Colby and Rhodes in the basement. They have wired equipment into the phone lines for the office and are listening to the conversation. So next, Mildred asks Vienhoff if Laura knows where he is.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

That was the first clue for me anyway, right? Because he says, tell her Vienhoff called. And she she doesn't say, Oh, we do have a client, or or she doesn't say, Oh, Vienhoff, like she doesn't sound surprised. She just says, Does Miss Holt know where you are? Like she knew it, like she knew that Miss Holt was hiding her or had it.

SPEAKER_05 46:06

Or she or she recognized from his message that he's trying to get a hold of Laura. And if somebody just says, Okay, well, tell so-and-so I called, it's kind of a natural question to ask, well, do they know where you're at? Because you haven't left me a phone number. You haven't left me an address where they can go meet you. So how are they supposed to know? Do they does this person you're calling know where you're at?

SPEAKER_01 46:34

He's he's just asking her to let Laura know he called. He's not asking.

SPEAKER_05 46:39

The implication is so call me back.

SPEAKER_01 46:42

But but most people most secretaries, most people working at desk would just write down the name and say, okay, I'll let her know. But Mildred doesn't. She says, Does Ms. Holt know where you are? It sounds like a d do you know where your children are? Like she's talking to him as if she's spoken to him before. It's a familiar, it's a familiar exchange. It's not just a, oh, I've never heard of you, I've never heard from you before. Oh, there really is a Vienhoff. I I don't know. She just I that doesn't seem to me the reaction that you'd give when you've never when you weren't aware that there was a client named Vienhoff. I just this feels familiar. This and then when when when he says uh sometimes I wonder, I'm going stir crazy here. Like that implies he's been hiding a while, and Mildred knows that. Right?

SPEAKER_05 47:32

Like Hush.

SPEAKER_01 47:39

Which is if that is true, okay, then that means that Mildred has willingly deceived Steele and is comfortable now leaving him out of the loop. It's a shift in their whole relationship and their whole dynamic, which will continue throughout the rest of the season. And it starts here. Just saying.

SPEAKER_05 48:00

No comment. Anyway, as you say, Vienhoff mutters that he sometimes wonders if Laura does know where he's at, and then more clearly says, Look, he's got a move. He's going stir crazy there. Mildred tells him, No, he's gonna stay right where he is until Mildred can reach Laura. Vienhoff tells her that, well, if he's gotta stay here, uh I I wanna I want something to eat. And he says, Double cheeseburger, large order of fries and onion rings, and a diet cola. Mildred, who obviously has not taken the course on stashing clients at safe houses, asks Vienhoff where he's at. Right? Hello, Mildred. If Laura stashed him there, she knows where he's at.

SPEAKER_01 48:42

And if the appropriate response would be, I'll give that message to Laura when I see her.

SPEAKER_05 48:46

Yeah, and asking him and getting him to state the location over an unsecured phone line is dumb, dumb, dumb. Especially since Mildred knows that the FBI is involved, and that she's antagonized them already. Yep. And that they have already threatened the agency. I mean, no.

SPEAKER_01 49:08

Yeah, there's a bunch of there's a bunch of things here that you just think. Although she does a good job of keeping him safe, I will say that.

SPEAKER_05 49:16

Yeah, but she figures out a lot of things that also didn't Laura tell Vienhoff to keep his location a secret? I mean, that if he had to call or talk to anyone, not to say anything that would give away his location at the Melrose apartments, 1121 Melrose Apartment 303?

SPEAKER_01 49:34

To be fair, Vienhoff does not exactly strike me as the um brightest smarty in the box, the sharpest tool in the shed, right? Like he's Well, that's true. But he and he just he radiates sleas, this guy. He's one of those clients where they protect him because they have to, but what a creep. You know? Not because of his business. I think if you want to go and get pictures like that taken for your partner, for your spouse, what have you, hey, have at it. Do you, right? But the fact that he then pedals them off to other people, that's the sleaze. That's the part where uh gross.

SPEAKER_05 50:14

Yeah, but I mean, still, if Laura had told him not to reveal his location to anybody. Oh, I'm not saying he deserves to be killed or whatever, but uh but what I'm saying is that if Laura had told him not to reveal his location, I don't think he would have given it to Mildred. I would hope he wouldn't have given it to Mildred, even if he is not exactly the biggest candy bar in the store.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

I'm assuming this this just kind of goes with my theory that Mildred knew about this situation because I'm assuming he gave it to Mildred thinking she was already in the loop and maybe just hadn't gotten that address.

SPEAKER_05 50:47

Well, if she was in the loop, why wouldn't she know where he was at?

SPEAKER_01 50:51

Maybe Mildred hadn't told her yet. She hasn't seen Mildred. He's also I did I mention not the brightest sh smarty in the box, right? Like he's he was all he was willing to to he reveals himself when the FBI guys throw show up because he thinks they're talent agents. Like he it's on it's almost like he wants to be shot by someone. Oh no, that's fine, they're talent agents. They offered me 20 grand for my files. Like you'd think Laura would have told him not to do that, too.

SPEAKER_05 51:27

Well, she might not have known about that, but sh I mean it just somebody somebody dropped the ball here because because Laura should have told him not to reveal his location, or he shouldn't have done it. Either one. Yeah, I anyway.

SPEAKER_01 51:47

He shouldn't have done it. He's just hungry and he's not upright.

SPEAKER_05 51:50

Anyway, next we see that Mildred is driving the Auburn and she pulls up in front of the Melrose. Oh, I forgot to mention Colby and Rhodes are of course are hearing this conversation. They're recording it on tape, and Rhodes in his notebook. Mildred is then driving the Auburn. She pulls up in front of the Melrose apartments, gets out with a bag of takeaway, and then makes her way up to apartment 303. She finds the door, briefly puts her ear to the door, knocks, and then stage whispers, Mr. Vinoff. No answer. She knocks again. A slightly louder stage whisper. Mr. Vinoff, again, no answer. She tries the knob. Locked. She puts down the takeaway, reaches into her purse, and pulls out her Amazon Basics lockpick tool set. She inserts a tool into the deadbolt lock, begins to manipulate it, only to have it break off in the key slot. Now that's what you get for buying cheap, Mildred. She gives the broken tool a look of disdain and then picks up the takeaway and makes her way to the window that's at the end of the hall that gives access to the fire escape ladder. She climbs through the window, onto the platform, then over the safety rail of the platform onto a ledge. With her back to the building, she realizes that the situation that her gung ho actions have gotten her into isn't exactly to her liking. And so she begins hugging up against the wall really, really tight and hard. And then we get a shot that should have had a warning label on it for those of us with vertigo issues.

SPEAKER_01 53:18

Oh, yeah, she looks right down.

SPEAKER_05 53:21

Yeah, and we see it from her point of view. Anyway, Mildred, apparently having decided in for a penny, in for a pound, begins to inch her way along the ledge to a window that leads to the apartment. She reaches the window, pushes on it, but it's locked. Mildred's sense of nervousness at the prospect of the sudden impact that usually follows a fall from great heights, shows on her face. She continues to inch along the ledge, reaching the corner of a building. She takes a turn and sees that the next window is open. But as she peers in, Colby and Rhodes burst through the door to the apartment, calling for Vinoff, and then they begin to trash the apartment. Mildred pulls her head back, uncertain what to do. But as she's pondering her options and her predicament, she sees someone has the hood of the auburn up and is messing around in the engine compartment. Inside, Colby and Rhodes conclude their destruction by pulling Vinoff's camera equipment out of its bag, then roughly tossing it onto the bed. I mean, why do they care about damaging the expense of equipment? They're government agents. What do they care about personal property, you know?

SPEAKER_01 54:30

He doesn't have a burr in his a bee in his bonnet, does he? No. This whole side plot though with the Auburn is really fun. It it doesn't have anything to do with the actual episode at all. Uh but it it's I don't know. It just it's weird, it's weirdly put in there as just a by the way, this is also happening, and Mildred's dealing with it. That bit where she's on the the wall, like she's standing against the wall and she's she doesn't know what to do. She wants to yell, hey, stop, but she can't because Colby and Rhodes are in the other room, and then when they go, she's yelling it, and there's no point because he's not gonna do anything. She's on a a woman on a wall yelling, car thief!

SPEAKER_05 55:11

Well, you know, and that may have been the whole point is to keep her from doing anything about Colby and Rhodes or or um Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

I mean, inter narratively, yes, probably. Yeah. Um, but it's just funny to watch her not know which way to turn because she doesn't know if she should be trying to stop the car thief. She doesn't know if she should be intervening with Colby and Rhodes. Like she's got these two situations going on simultaneously.

SPEAKER_05 55:37

Yeah. So Colby and Rhodes are frustrated at their failure to find whatever it is that they're looking for, and they are clearly more interested in something Fienhoff has rather than any supposed crime he has allegedly committed. So they leave, and now, say from Discovery, Mildred turns her attention back to the youngster messing with her car and hollers at him. The young man, who appears to be probably no more than in his mid-teens, waves up and at her and she begins yelling for somebody to call the cops. He's stealing her car. Well, the young man has lowered the hood, gone around to the driver's side, and begins climbing into the car, as Mildred begins yelling, he's a car thief! Come back, you louse! Come back with my car as the young man drives away. You know, something that just occurred to me, and I never checked this. Did the Auburn Roadster have a key for starting? Because some of those cars back then didn't actually have a key for starting. You started it by pressing a like um a button. Uh older cars they had the the headlight dam and bright button on the floorboard, and some of the older cars had a similar button on the floorboard or on the dash that you pressed to start them. Kind of like the newer cars do with I just googled it. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 57:09

And and you were right. It says uh the uh 1936 supercharged Auburn did not use a traditional key for starting. Instead, it featured an Oaks Hershey lockable steering column, which served as a security device to present prevent theft, and an automatic engine startup feature called the Startix, which would restart the engine if stalled while driving.

SPEAKER_05 57:30

So the kid didn't even have to get into the engine compartment. What he needed to do was get something to put into that mechanism on the dashboard that locked the steering column.

SPEAKER_01 57:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 57:41

Oops, technical boo-boo.

SPEAKER_01 57:43

Possibly this website says uh the Auburn supercharged speedster, possibly the most beautiful American car ever made. So yeah.

SPEAKER_05 57:57

No, it's it's go so far as to say it's the most beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 58:01

This is a it's a fan website, clearly.

SPEAKER_05 58:03

So oh yeah. So anyway, after the car drives off and Mildred is standing there, she moves to the window to the apartment, then begins to climb in through the window into the apartment as we hear Vienhoff hollering, Hey, what's going on? Well, Mildred confirms his identity and then climbs down onto the floor as Vienhoff confronts her to ask her, What did he do what did she do to his room? Mildred grabs his arm, telling him, It's not safe here, and begins to pull him out of the room. We

Laura and Steele follow the case to Ford Stevens

SPEAKER_05 58:35

jump back to the agency. Steele walks in, holding a handkerchief to his lip. Laura is coming out of her office, and they pass each other with basically no acknowledgement at all, or very little.

SPEAKER_01 58:46

Yeah, it's it's very casual.

SPEAKER_05 58:49

Yeah. Laura drops a handful of envelopes onto Mildred's desk, and Steele turns to her as she casually asks, What happened to his lip? She heads out toward the main doors with Steele following. Racquetball, he says.

SPEAKER_01 59:03

Racquetball, come on. This guy won't even walk up the stairs.

SPEAKER_05 59:07

Well, I think Laura understands that it's probably not true because she says, Didn't know you played as uh as she opens the door and steel in the mouth with the door.

SPEAKER_01 59:19

I'm just saying, as far as excuses go, Steele, that's a bad one.

unknown 59:23

Come on.

SPEAKER_05 59:25

Out in the hall, Steele asks if there's anything he should know about, you know, like clients or cases. No, not really. She answers, then asks, why? Oh, no reason, he says, just making the excuse that he thought they could just, you know, grab a bite to eat. They arrive at the elevators, and Laura presses the down button, then says, sorry, she can't. She promised a friend she'd do him a favor. What sort of favor? It's an afternoon's work. She didn't want to bore him with the details. Well, obviously, she didn't want to tell Steele anything, and she's anxious to get from his questioning.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:01

The quickest way to get to ensure that he follows her and sticks on her like glue.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:06

Is to not give him an answer.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:08

Is or to tell him that she doesn't need him along or doesn't want him along. Like, come on, Laura, have you learned nothing? Right? Have you learned nothing? The easiest way to get rid of him is to say, you know, oh yes, I've got a small case and you know, make up a case and say, I've just got to do some legwork. Wanna come? Yeah. Then he'll be he'll be gone so fast.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:28

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:29

She w you know, her head'll spin. Laura, Laura, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_05 1:00:33

Well, she hits the down button again as if thinking that the more she hits it, the faster it'll come, which it doesn't. Uh Steele says that, well, you know, he'll just come along for the ride. Get some fresh air. No, no, really, it's it's just a personal matter. She didn't want to trouble him. As the elevator doors open, people begin stepping off, and Steele assures Laura, it's no trouble. And of course, as they enter the elevator, Laura rolls her eyes in frustration at having failed to dissuade Steele from coming along. And as you said, she could have probably handled it better.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:06

Legwork. Just use those words, legwork.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:09

At the Rossmore, Mildred leads Vinoff from the elevator to the door of Steele's apartment. She warns him to keep a sharp eye peeled for anything. Anybody. She again pulls out her Amazon Basics Lockpick tools and tries to pick the deadbolt on Steele's door. And again, she breaks the tool off in the lock.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:29

Maybe she bought the lockpick kit from the Great Kirk Corporation.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:35

The company that makes things.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:37

Mildred has now become the first person in his entirety of this show not to be able to break into Steele's apartment. Everybody else can, but not Mildred, apparently.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:50

Well, having broken the tool off in the lock, Mildred grabs Vinoff's arm and begins to lead him away from the door and back toward the elevator, telling him it's not safe here. And when Vinoff asks how she knows, she informs him that she's a trained investigator, dramatically telling him that there's death behind that door.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:09

Well, okay, she's not entirely wrong because she probably figures that Steele's gonna kill her when she when he finds out that the auburn's been stolen. But here's my question, because this I thought about this for a ridiculously like way too long, way longer than I should have. She's broken that lock off in his key. Like in his would he have to replace the lock now? Would that work?

SPEAKER_05 1:02:32

Well, after she it's gotten if they could get if they could get the piece that was left in there out, I wouldn't take it. Yeah, you would have to because if the deadbolt is locked, if you can't get that piece out, you're not getting the deadbolt open. Yeah. Because it mounts, you know, the screws that hold it in place are coming in from the inside of the building or the inside of the door. So at that point, if they can't get it out, the locksmith would have to come and drill the thing out. Mildred.

unknown 1:03:07

Mildred, yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:09

Shame on you, girl. Anyway, next we're in the limo, and the fret of the day is driving Laura and Steele somewhere. Steele is watching out the back window of the car at another car that's following them. After a few moments, he turns around and asks Laura just what it is that this friend of hers does. He's a photographer for a newspaper. No, he has his own studio. Does portraits mostly. Ah, graduations, weddings, kids, dogs, that sort of thing. More or less.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:41

Laura's really bad at this. She's really, really bad. And and what kills me is she doesn't even know at this point that her picture has been used in this magazine. She's just worried about Steele finding out that she had a portrait taken and then making the adjacent connection that his normal business is boudoir photography. Right? So it's weird that she's so nervous that he might find out that Vienhoff took her picture because at this point.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:12

Or it could be that she doesn't want him to find out about the case for some reason, unrelated to her having had her photo taken.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:20

Well, she says to him later on, like she it's either to her or to Mildred. She says later on that she didn't want him to know because she didn't want him to to equate her having a portrait. I think it's at the end when they're throwing the magazines in the fire. She says something along the lines of it was I didn't want you to think anything about his boudoir business or something along those lines. She's just afraid of that adjacent connection being made, which is kind of odd because she she didn't get her a sexy well in her mind, she didn't get a sexy picture taken, right? She what is it she says? She says, um uh this is why I didn't want to tell you about this. She needed a portrait, he took one. She didn't know about Vienhoff's boudoir business until he came to her with his problem. She just I guess maybe he she was she thought he was gonna make all kinds of innuendos and you know employee jokes.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:16

But see, it's entirely possible she didn't even know about his boudoir photography aspect of it at this point, or at least not to the extent of how far into the boudoir the photography went. And she's just wanting to keep Steele out of it because she doesn't she doesn't want him messing up with her case or something.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:36

I I Well, no, because at like I said, at the end she says that she did he she got her picture. She's gonna argue with me this whole episode. Because she said she got her picture taken and then she found out about the boudoir boudoir business when he came to her with his problem, the problem being that people were after him for his files. So fine. But can honestly, can you think about it this way? Had she gone to steal Right in the beginning, and said, Hey, we've got a client and that client happens to be a boudoir photographer and then Steele finds out he took her picture, he's gonna make all kinds of jokes. He's never gonna let her live it down. Well that's what she was trying to avoid, but that level of embarrassment just seems to be heightened to the point where she's really bad at lying about it.

unknown 1:06:23

Right?

SPEAKER_05 1:06:24

Well, I think she could have avoided that problem by just by simply saying, Hey, he does portraits primarily, that's why I went to him. I needed him for the you know this reason. Then he came to me with a problem. Turns out he also does this other kind of work, you know, go figure. Uh but anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:40

But Steele Steele is an eight-year-old at heart and and will just discovered National Geographic.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:48

Pretty much, exactly, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:50

Like he's he's like, oh, really? Boudoir for dog Rafi, huh?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:54

Well, maybe we could uh employ, yeah. I could just see it's just funny how bad she is at lying about this because he's you know, kids, dogs, graduation, uh more or less.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:05

Steele asks if he's ever taken her photograph, and she says, Mine? No. And kind of grabs the back of her head with her hand and you know, nervously says, Oh, you know how camera shy I am.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:19

Right. The woman acapulka.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:22

The veritable shrinking violent. Yeah, I'm thinking that Steele is is uh yeah. Seeing a disconnect between all this.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:32

And here's the thing: I can understand why, and and I'm gonna have some issues with Steele a little bit later on. At this point, with him thinking that she has had her picture taken in this magazine and hasn't told him, I can understand him being irritated and feeling betrayed and feeling angry because uh not that he has any claim to what she does in her personal life, but if they're in a relationship, and it presumably if she had had a photo like that taken, one would think that if you are with somebody that they would they would tell you something like that. They would tell you that they're gonna be in a magazine where everybody on the planet's gonna be able to see them stark naked, because that would be a matter of respect, just letting your partner know.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:15

Right? So I can see why he's mad here. And it has some issues with him later on in the episode, because I don't think he behaves entirely the best uh later on, but here his I mean, could he have said, Hey, I know about the magazine? Sure, but she didn't know about the magazine, so that would have just gone right over her head at this point.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:38

Well, Steele looks out the back window of the car again, and that other car is still following them.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:44

You'd think she'd look back too, just to see what he's staring at, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:48

Well, she does in a minute, yeah. Steele asks, Yeah, this friend of yours wouldn't be mixed up in anything illegitimate, would he? She says, Your imagination never stops, does it? And he says, At the moment, it's working overtime.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:01

Yeah, he's thinking about page 42.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:05

Laura gives in, telling Steele that a couple of days ago someone broke into Vinoff's studio, roughed him up, and demanded he turn over his files. Fortunately, he was interrupted by Vinoff's next appointment. She managed to get a line on a man who fits the description. And if it's who she thinks it is, they may have a mini Watergate on their hands. Ever heard of Ford Stevens? Steele says no. And she says he's a candidate for state senate, and he's very likely the man she's after.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:31

So the actor that plays Ford appeared several times on Lois and Clark as Dr. Klein, the scientist that sort of kind of unofficially becomes Superman's doctor, who works at Star Labs. And he's very it's just it it's notable because on on that show he's very bumbling and very almost absent-minded professor-ish.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:54

In a very funny way, and here he's more, you know, professional politician guy. So that was kind of amusing to me. But the other thing I was thinking about is that she mentions that they may have a mini Watergate. It might be, I mean, he'd probably be able to explain it a little better than I could, because I just know what I've read about it, but there may be people who are not from the US that have no idea what Watergate even was.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:18

Um Richard Nixon, prior to his second term in uh uh in office being re-elected for a second time, was involved in at least allowing, if not directing, that some of his people break into the Democratic National Convention's offices at the Watergate uh I think it was hotel. And they they were either looking for documentation or they were planning bugs. I think they were planting bugs.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:57

I yeah, I read that it was planting listing devices, but it said that they were caught. The thing I read said they were caught burglarizing and planting listing devices.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:04

Yeah, and so that eventually led its way back to Richard Nixon. But of course, in the meantime, before between the time that the guys were busted and the time that it led back to Nixon, there was a this you know massive cut try attempt at a cover-up. Uh they tried to hide the fact that it was an official uh or at least an authorized action that Nixon knew about or had requested or had approved or whatever uh his level. I don't remember exactly what the the level of his involvement was, but he was involved to some degree in it. And it it it it's kind of the source of the saying that it's not the crime, it's the cover-up. Because it was it was actually the cover-up that was more of the problem than the crime itself. Because I think I think that at the time of the the break-in, Nixon was not necessarily in the know that it was happening, but when he found out, he participated in the cover-up, and that's really kind of what got him.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:14

Because what I found here uh said following the burglar's arrest, media and the Department of Justice found money connected with the committee for the re-election of the president, the fundraising arm of Nixon's campaign. So he could theoretically might not have known then, but then you've got Woodward and Bernstein, who were the two reporters, uh, and the source Deep Throat uncovered a campaign of political political espionage directed by the White House officials and legally funded by donor contributions. Nixon dismissed the accusations, won the election in a landslide, but further investigation and revelations from the burglars trial led the Senate to establish a Watergate committee and the House of Representatives to grant its Judiciary Committee expanded authority. They received lengthy prison sentences, and eventually it was revealed that Nixon had installed a voice-activated taping system in the Oval Office. His administration refused to grant investigators access to the tapes, which yeah. So it was a whole thing. But like this obviously is what Laura is thinking is happening on a smaller scale with Ford Stevens and Yeah, that he's hired people to break in to get these files and that there's going to be a cover-up if anything happens.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:19

Yeah. If these guys get caught. But yeah, it's it's it's the same kind of concept where a politician is authorized somebody to bro or is aware of somebody trying to break into an office to get incriminating evidence or plan a device or whatever, but they're involved in in an illegal operation on the behalf of the politician. So again, Steele looks out the back window. I think I said that at the car that's following them. Laura is curious as to why he keeps looking out the window. So she does finally turn and look out of it herself. And uncertain at what he's been looking at or looking for, she turns back to him and asks if there's something he's not telling her. Whatever gave you that idea, he says, then repeats her question back to her. Is there something she's not telling him? Laura pauses, then turns to Steele and repeats the answer back to him. Whatever gave you that idea? And then we're back to them not talking to each other.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:18

Yep. Here we are again.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:20

Yep. I think I've heard this song before.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:24

The limousine arrives at the headquarters of the Ford Stevens campaign. Laura tells Steele to hang tight, she'll be back in a minute, then exits the limo. And we see that the car that has been following them parks nearby. And it is important to note that they had to parallel park in a street side space. And of course, inside are Colby and Rhodes. Inside, the office of Ford Stevens is buzzing with activity. Laura approaches a woman who seems to be in charge, hands her business card, and tells the woman that she would like to speak to Ford Stevens. The woman tells her to wait and then steps away. As she's waiting, Laura steps over to a desk and reads a schedule. A handwritten note is listing a golf lesson on the agenda for Thursday morning. And a note in a different handwriting reads, Press meeting tonight, channel six. Outside, Steele has been repeatedly turning and looking at the car with Colby and Rhodes. He realizes that after they had parked, another car had pulled into the space behind them, putting them in something of a tight spot. This would be Rhodes and Colby.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:34

Steele leans forward and then tells the Fred of the Day to drive to the back of the building so that Steele can get out, then handing Fred the of the uh the the handing the Fred of the Day some bills to boy, I'm having a tough day. Uh so Steele can get out, then handing Fred of the Day some bills, he tells the Fred of the Day to take a leisurely drive up to Santa Barbara and have himself a nice big fat juicy steak. Fake Fred then thanks, Mr. Steele, and pulls out. Colby and Roads.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:07

This has got to be one of those, like we've talked about how Fred knows probably by this point knows his job is not like other jobs. Or their their revolving list of Fred of the Days are aware that their job's a little bit different than some other people's. Sometimes they're required to engage in a high-speed chase. Sometimes they are required to lose a tail. Sometimes they are shot at, right? And sometimes they're randomly handed a chunk of money and told, have a good day, go get some steak. And he doesn't even question it. He's just thanks, Mr. Steele. I think I'll do that.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:45

He pulls out, and then Colby and Rhodes begin to try to pull out of their parking space, but they have to maneuver back and forth to get out from between the car in front and the car in back before they can actually get out and turn around, which gives Fred and Steele time to get around to the back of the building so Steele can get out unobserved. Back inside, Ford Stevens is in his office on the phone, having a fit over campaign posters.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:10

Should have hired Vienhoff.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:12

Yes. The woman that Laura had approached enters. When Stevens hangs up from his call, she hands him Laura's card and he reads it, concerned, asking what she wants. Woman says she doesn't know, only that she wants to see him. Stevens grabs his jacket and in an obvious panic tells the woman to tell Laura that he's out. No. Tell her he's on the campaign swing up north. Me and Fresno till Friday. Then he hightails it out the side door. Steele enters the office from another door as the woman is telling Laura that Stevens will return her call. Steele comes over to Laura and she tells him that Stevens is campaigning up north. Won't be back till Friday, late. Steele doesn't buy it. Laura asks why he says that. Well, because it's obvious Laura doesn't buy it.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:58

You don't buy it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:01

And Laura says, Yep. Tells them that Stevens' appointment book shows a television interview that evening at his home in Fremont Place. And with an insincere tone, Steele comments that it's a wonderful feeling them being on the same wave, being on the same wavelength. Almost as though they can read each other's thoughts without actually having to articulate a thing. Tightening the screw here, just you know, really and Laura has no idea what he's talking about and gives him this kind of a what are you talking about, look?

SPEAKER_04 1:18:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:36

Well, next is night. Mildred has Vinoff at Laura's loft. She's on the phone with the police, and is she ever frustrated?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:43

So she tells This tells us one of two things. Either she finally figured out how to pick a lock, or Mildred left or Laura left her place unlocked. Well, actually, one of three things, or Mildred has a key.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:54

I I think Mildred has a key.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:57

And why doesn't she have a key to Mr. Steele's?

SPEAKER_05 1:19:00

Well, because he's the boss. Yeah. She tells the police sergeant that she knows he'll do his best, but he's got to understand that if her boss finds out that a car has been stolen, she's dead meat. And obviously not getting any satisfaction, she hangs up and she calls the office. No answer. She hangs up, complaining, are those people ever in? Hello, Mildred, those people. You're one of those people. And let's talk about those two to three hour lunches.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:30

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:33

Anyway, next Laura and Steele enter. Laura's surprised to see Viennoff. Steele seems surprised that this is Viennoff in the flesh. Steele introduces himself, commenting that Viennoff isn't quite what he pictured the man to be.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:48

Well, yeah, because he was probably expecting Vienhoff to be this attractive man that Laura decided to pose naked for. There was probably some jealousy working because, well, if you think about it, he the way he felt when she was allowing uh Mr. Dominic to massage her sunscreen and whatnot, even though she was undercover on a case, there was no interest whatsoever in this guy, but that feeling of, well, she'll do it, let him do it, but she won't let me close. So there's probably that he probably had that same feeling of, well, she let this other guy see her naked. And then seeing Vienhoff, like, ugh, you let that guy see you naked? Definitely not what what he was expecting.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:30

Well, anyway, Steele does say that he uh Vienhoff isn't quite uh the man he pictured him to be, then tells Mildred that it's been a terribly long day and could she maybe fix them some cold drinks. Steele steps forward and invites Vinoff to come on in and sit down. Behind his back, Laura is gesturing to Viennoff, giving him the sign, trying to make him understand not to say anything. As they sit, Steele says that Laura has told him that she and Vinoff have known each other for quite some time. Viennoff starts to say, Oh, about three weeks, but Laura talks over him saying and of course Steele, recognizing what Laura's doing, turns to her and knowingly asks, That long, eh? He chuckles and then tells Vinoff that he understands that the man is a photographer. Yeah, yeah. And he says, Well, what he does is boudoir photography.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:23

And Laura's like, nope, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:26

But yeah, it's too late. Vinoff just finishes the sentence. And Laura gives out with a throat clearing sound. Steele repeats, boudoir photography. And he frowns and hums. And Laura gives Vinoff a thanks for nothing look. Steele, deciding to buy himself some time to think, and Laura some more rope with which to hang herself, gets up, telling Mildred that he'll help her with the drinks. After Steele steps away, Laura moves to the couch and asks Vinoff what happened. He tells her that somebody tore his room apart. She tells him that she doesn't want him to tell Steele that he took her picture. He doesn't want Steele to get the wrong idea. Over in the kitchen, Mildred.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:11

Kind of already got the wrong idea because he's seen the magazine, but yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:15

Well, yeah, but she doesn't know that. Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:17

No, no, that's a funny thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:18

Over in the kitchen area, Mildred tells Steele that he doesn't know what their game is. No, he says he doesn't know what their what game their tact turn colleague is playing at, but he's given her enough opportunity to fess up and she hasn't said a word. Mildred tells him that the two FBI guys turned up at Vinoff's apartment and she barely got him out of there at time. Steele likens them to a bad head cold, the the FBI guys, calling them hard to shake. Then he casually asks where the Auburn is. She tells him it's in the shop. Sticky lifters. This annoys Steele. Again, he asks. I have to wonder, how many times has the auburn been stolen? And Mildred's used this as an excuse to explain.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:01

Maybe this is the the, yeah, anytime it's stolen. Sticky lifters. Yeah, they've got to fix it again. It's I don't know. It's a known problem. What can I tell you?

SPEAKER_05 1:23:10

Coming back over with drinks, Steele and Mildred rejoin Laura and Viennoff. And Steele asks, What exactly is boudoir photography? As if he doesn't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:20

Vienhoff excitedly says that it's only the hottest new craze to sweep the country. Women, and he's talking housewives, secretaries, teachers, taking playmate style pictures. So is that what teachers really do? No. Sarah as a teacher.

unknown 1:23:36

No.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:38

But do you know the history of of boudoir photography? Because I look I looked at it, like it's actually not as it like it goes really far back.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:46

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:47

It yeah, it's uh it actually originated in um like uh 1800s, like in France, because the word boudoir basically means or boudoir, like erotic photography, it was like ladies a ladies' uh private rooms, I think, was what they call their boudoirs, right? So they would take these pictures as early as like 1800s, 1840s, early erotic photography, and then like they going into like World War II, they become became a little bit more artistic, right? Like artistic movements at this time, the art deco, that sort of thing. Um and there were some really notable photographers who would take pictures of erotic subject matter as a a work of art. And then after that, like into the 21st century, with the arrival, as he mentions, of digital photography, it became popular with women seeking to create a collection of private or professional studio photos, and it became more about either self-expression or photos for their spouse, right? But it also was sort of associated with like showing their c their vulnerability, their strength, their confidence, like kind of that own like personal empowerment thing, and it became very popular in a commercial way, but it's been around forever. And it's what's interesting is that there was sort of a mini craze in the late 80s, mid-90s, where it was not quite a sexual style of photos, but have you ever heard of glamour shots? This was, I think, kind of like an offshoot of boudoir photography in the sense that it targeted younger generation and it wasn't intimate photos, but it was like highly stylized, heavily made-up professional uh glamour photos that made you look as if you just stepped out of a magazine. Of course, your hair was done up, the the lighting was soft, your makeup was heavy, and you got all these girls, typically girls like between, I want to say 12 and I don't know, 18 that took these glamour shots. And you look back on them and you're like, oh my god, that looks horrible. But back then we thought, oh my gosh, we look so glamorous, we look so beautiful. Like my friend had a glamour shot taken. I remember it was on her mantle. So yeah, the boudoir business has been around for quite some time, and it was just around this time that it became sort of taking off as a commercial thing. So, no, I haven't had boudoir photography pictures, but it would be something that everyday women were starting to embrace because it was like they got to live this you know dream of being you know a playmate, but nobody else was seeing it but either themselves or their partner if they were giving the photos to somebody. Nowadays people just take naughty pictures on their phone, and we all know how well that's gone for people.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:43

So well,

The hosts debate the ethics of boudoir photography

SPEAKER_05 1:26:46

Steele leans in uncomfortably close to Laura, intentionally so, and asks, these women actually pay you to photograph them in the nude?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:58

The way he says it too, in the nude.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:01

He's just enunciating on every single word just to make it.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:06

And it's obviously directed at Laura.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:09

Oh, yeah.

unknown 1:27:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:11

And of course, Vinoff, not being a dummy entirely, tries to dodge the question, saying that it's sort of a yes and no thing. He admits that most of them come in not expecting to do any real nudity, but then lecherously says uh with a grin, but a couple glasses of wine, and Steele gives Laura an isn't that interesting look. Beenhoff continues saying that the women see a little slideshow of some previous clients. The next thing you know, he gives another slightly lecherous look and chuckle and concludes These women are getting into the real arty stuff, as he called it.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:54

So ew, first of all. But secondly, this should be. The first red flag to both of them that Vienhoff is too sketchy if they didn't think so before. Because unless these other clients have signed a release form that allows their pictures to be used as advertising material for his boudoir photography business, he shouldn't be showing private client photos to other potential clients. Like if you think about it, these are intimate photos that they're taking for their spouse. Nobody else is supposed to be seeing these photos except the person that they're meant for and the client.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:37

If there's a release signed, sure, but like Except How many times do people sign things without really reading it? Especially the fine print. You can get away with a lot of stuff by putting it in the fine print and people will never read it. So he could very well have slipped it into the fine print that he can do with the photos what he wants to.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:04

But that's my point in that in that implying like this is a sketchy statement for him to make.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:10

Well, but he could he could defend it by saying no, no, they signed they signed the uh the licensing agreement or the uh the uh release agreement, they signed it. I'm not doing anything sleazy overlooking the fact that he slipped it in on them, but he can still present it as I'm I'm just hey, I'm perfectly straight up with this. They had it was there for them to read, they signed it. I I I could only presume that they understood. Yeah, but yeah, you're right. I mean, the whole guy just oozes because here's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:46

Like I I again, I have never had I've never gone to a studio and had pictures like this taken. I've never done that. But is that a definitive statement? No, yeah, it's a definitive statement. If I were to do something like that, you'd want to make sure that the person taking the photos is somebody that you would trust not to not to do something, yeah. It's kind of like a doctor, right? You've got doctors that are gynecologists that look at your lady parts, or you know, doctors that look at prostate and whatever else. You kind of have to assume that these doctors are doing so with just professionalism in mind, right? Right. Because otherwise, that's a very vulnerable position to put yourself in for your health, and you have to do it. You have to, because if you don't, you can end up with cancer and all kinds of other stuff. With this sort of situation, it would be the same thing. You'd have to assume that any photographer that is taking these photos is doing so from an artistic standpoint, not a stand, you know, not uh the standpoint of, oh, I'm gonna get a picture of this woman I can put in my spank bank. And like that's the vibe Artie gives off. He doesn't give off, I'm a professional artist that is taking these photos with artistic detachment. He gives off the other vibe, the vibe of like have some wine, and then maybe we'll get you into that leather corset and out of it. Like gross.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:07

Yes, yeah. Well, yeah. Just the fact that he even ignoring the showing previous clients, the fact that he's he admits that he's enjoying the real artist. That he's he's giving them wine to loosen them up and to get them to consent to this other stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:28

That's I mean, even that just is And make them think it was their idea, right? A couple of glasses of wine, they see the pictures of the previous clients, they want to look I want to look that sexy. Okay. I wasn't coming here intending to take my mystery. Yeah, that's gross.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:44

Gross. Anyway, uncomfortably Laura stands saying that unless she's sure that they all find this conversation very fascinating, they've got to go. And with any luck, this case will be wrapped up by tonight. Steele chuckles and tells her, Thank heavens for that. The next thing you know, he'll be wanting to take your picture. And Laura turns her head so as not to look at Steele, puzzled by his comment, but suspicious that he might know something. This is a presumed.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:13

A presupution?

SPEAKER_05 1:32:18

Or presumed to know something. You started talking midward and I lost my train of thought.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:28

I'm just saying that Stephanie's response to this is really good because when we find out later she didn't know about the photo in the magazine, this can be read as just, wait, does he know about the portrait? Like, why is he saying that? Like it generally looks like she's just puzzled. But it because we also, when you're watching this episode for the first time, don't know that she's not aware of that picture. It could also be, wait, what does he know? Does he know about the picture? Like it it it's done really well that it can kind of straddle that line.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:58

Yeah. Yeah. Uh let's see, where are we here? Yeah, yeah.

Laura confronts the reality of the magazine

SPEAKER_05 1:33:03

Outside. Oh, next we're outside, and the thu the thu outside at night, the two FBI thugs have pulled up and parked to where they can observe the lofts. They see Laura and Remington exit the building, get in the rabbit, and drive away. And Colby tells Rhodes, check upstairs. Rhodes gets out, and Colby drives away. Inside Laura's loft, Vienhoff is talking to Mildred when there's a knock on the door. Mildred asks, Who is it? Yeah, and voice says, FBI, open up. She shoes Vienhoff into the bathroom, then goes to answer the door. She stands in the doorway, blocking Rhodes and asking if he's got a warrant this time. But Vienhoff can't stay out of harm's way. He comes out of the bathroom. He's got the bathroom and greets Rhodes with a Hey, how are you?

SPEAKER_03 1:33:51

Hey, I'm over here. Like, what is wrong with you?

SPEAKER_05 1:33:55

Mildred pointlessly waves her arm at Vienhoff to direct him back into the bathroom, but it's too late. Rhodes strides forward, pulling his gun as he does. He steps past Mildred and tells Vinoff, let's move it. Mildred picks up a figurine from the nearby table and belts Rhodes over the head, knocking.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:13

Good for Mildred. Good for you, Mildred. She's well, well, we know she's pro-head conking, so that's Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:19

So it's it's it it fits. Uh Vinoff's not happy. He tells Mildred, hey, that guy was a talent agent and he offered me 20 grand for my files. Distressed, Mildred says, he's no agent, he's not even FBI. Vinoff questions how she would know this. And Mildred says, it's his gun. It's not government issue. Uh except that's not strictly true. FBI agents typically use handguns issued by the Bureau, but they can also carry personally owned weapons if they're approved and meet certain requirements.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:51

Okay, but none of us know that except you. So we're just gonna hand wave it because like I've I've bought it. I was like, yeah, sure, it's not a government issue.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:58

But it does sound good. It's a good story.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:01

But also, again, here's another red flag in the Vienhoff is a complete sleaze column where he says he offered me 20 grand for my files. That implies he's gonna take it and sell all these women's pictures without their consent.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:17

Well, that's true. That's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:19

Right?

SPEAKER_00 1:35:20

Like, yeah, uh, gross, creep, creep.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:23

Except he's got it. They've they signed the release. He snuck it in on them, but they signed it. Uh anyway, next it's dark, and we are in what appears to be a reasonably well-to-do neighborhood. We see the rabbit parked on the side of the street, and we also see Colby parked across from the rabbit watching. Inside, Ford Stevens is in a chair getting made up for his pending television interview. Laura and Steele are standing next to him. Stevens tells him, or Steele tells them, that he doesn't have time to deal with them right now. He's in the middle of a campaign, and he's a desperate man. I mean, he's a busy man. Laura hits him with a veiled threat, saying that she's sure the news media would enjoy hearing just how busy he's been. Breaking and entering, extortion, assault and battery, quite an agenda. And Stevens goes stiff. Steele asks him if the name Douglas Vienhoff means anything to him. And Stevens visibly deflates. He agrees now to see them and just to uh tell them what happened. But he begs them to understand that his whole life is invested in his campaign, his house, his kid's future, his pension plan. The risk is enormous. Laura, less than sympathetically, tells him we're all ears. Stevens begins. Well, my wife, she well, he steps over to a cabinet, kneels down, opens the door, and pulls out a magazine. He steps over to Steele and Laura hands it to Steele. It's Bedside Babes.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:51

The look on his, oh, I'm just seeing this magazine for the first time. I have never seen this before.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:59

So yes, it's Bedside Babes. It's the Laura Holt issue. Um Steele recites the magazine's name, and Laura reaches over and aggressively snatches it from his hands. Stevens tells her to turn to page 27. Laura very carefully. She's very almost too carefully.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:20

I think it's just dis she's she she's uh she doesn't like this magazine. She knows what it is. I think it's more out of distaste.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:29

Okay. Well, it's uh it could be also that she she's got an inkling as to what she might find elsewhere in there. But anyway, yes, she very carefully opens to page 27, being sure not to reveal any other pages by flipping through them. Steele peers over at the page and then asks Stevens, your wife? No, it's Lucille Baskom, their next door neighbor. She and his wife, Flaming Emily. I mean I have that in my notes.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:54

I have that in my notes, because it's the I yeah, because it's both they're both it, it's weird because we see names repeated all the time, right? But in this case, it's quite literally two wealthy families with a woman named Emily and some sort of uh sexual exploitation and or extortion happening taking place. In in the case of the other one, it was phone calls, but this one it's a picture. But yeah, Emily seems to be the name that you want to use if you want a rich lady who's being blackmailed.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:24

Yep. Yep, yep, yep. Yeah. Anyway, the two women, Lucille Baskam and his wife Emily, went to a boudoir photographer to have pictures taken. And when his wife first showed the pictures to him, he was flattered. In fact, he admits it was kind of a turn on.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:39

Steele's grinning, like that look on his face. He's like, Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:45

And of course, Laura's also got a uh kind of a weird, almost curious look on her face uh as she turns towards Steele, uh, as Stevens is saying this. And Steele or Steele, Stevens editorializes, you know, they've been married a long time, to which Steele nods his head knowingly. And then Stevens concludes, then he saw this. And when Laura questions him, asking if what he's telling them is that Douglas Vinoff took the picture, uh, Stevens adamantly affirms it, saying that that's why he wanted his files, suggesting that it would be disastrous for his campaign if his wife ended up in a smut magazine like that. Laura says that she doesn't think there's much chance of that, pointing out that, as you said earlier, his wife would have to sign a release before Vinoff could sell her pictures. Well, at that moment, Emily, who has apparently been overhearing part of the conversation, enters and informs her that her friend Laura uh informs them that her friend Lucille didn't sign a release. And Steele questions her on that.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:46

That means one of two things. Either what you said, where they did sign a release, they just didn't know it. He just snuck it in as part of the general client agreement or what have you, or he's just illegally selling their pictures.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:58

Yeah. When Steele questions Emily on the fact that her friends supposedly didn't sign a release, Emily's insistent, telling Laura uh not to be absurd. The pictures were meant for her husband's eyes only. And Steele gives out with a seemingly disbelieving mmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:17

I think he's just more amused about the Laura looking through the magazine and and kind of like waiting for her to find what she's about to find, right? Like he knows this is coming and he wants to see her reaction.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:30

He wants to be on the sideline watching. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:33

Yeah. But at this point, okay, this is where I have some issues with Steele's behavior. Because up until this point, he thought that Lauro had had knowingly taken this picture and you know, maybe and and ha for the magazine and just was lying to him about it. But it's pretty clear here, after they make the comment about Lucille not signing any release, that these pictures have been taken and sold without these women's consent, and that these women are now like that poor woman, Lucille Baskam, is now being looked at by anybody who picks it up off a stand. That would be damaging to your career, to your family, to your like that would that's more than just a funny joke, right? It would kind of destroy your life. And that's why Ford Stevens obviously doesn't want his wife to. It's not just his political career, but I mean obviously that would be a part of it. It would also be everything around it. Their kids would be made fun of. There you know, there could be job loss, like Steele's waiting for Laura, like he's amused by this now, and it kind of bugs me a little bit because if he knows her the way he the way he should know her, he would know that Laura would be humiliated beyond all reason. And he he finds it funny? I don't know. I just I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:50

The only the only thing that would mitigate the problem somewhat is I would guess since Vienhoff is selling these photos um without permission, he's probably giving fake names to the magazine or letting the magazine make up names. So there would be a little bit of a break in the the connection between the photograph and the actual person. I don't think they're not gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:22

Because Colby and Rhodes knew it was Laura Holt. Laura Holt, page 42. Right? And and and if if they weren't putting names to faces Emily, like I I could still I could still see Ford Stevens being worried about it, but the I the the likelihood of them being connected would maybe be a little bit less than if her name was like the Colby and Rhodes knew who Laura was. They said page 42, babe of the month. Like she's she's listed, her name is listed there. Theoretically, what he should have done is put the name of the woman whose body it was, but Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:03

Yeah. Uh you got a point. Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:06

The only thing, I mean, this is one of those we're looking at this from a 2025 perspective, and it's meant to be funny. It's meant to be funny because of course she didn't know her picture was there. He does know her picture's there, so he's getting a kick out of her fury. And usually I'm all for that, because like usually it's it's really funny to see her get furious about something and him being like, hee hee hee. But in this case, it's just I don't know. I think about how I would feel if that were me seeing my picture or supposedly my picture, and then knowing that anybody could see it if they picked up that magazine. I uh it would make my skin crawl.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:41

Like you think he should be enraged on her behalf. I mean, what's what's his face? Derek, that uh Derek Vivian hit on her. She was literally laughed it off and basically just told him because and said it's not a big deal, it doesn't even matter. Like I handled it, and he went charging out there to protect her honor, but in this case he's like, eh.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:03

Yeah, it's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:04

Okay. That's kind of horrible.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:07

Like so anyway, Emily says that yes, the uh she's positive that the neighbor didn't sign the pictures, they were meant for her only, uh meant for her husband's eyes only, as were hers. Laura casually begins flipping through the magazine as she tells Stevens that while she understands his predicament, the question is And I still laugh.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:28

I still laugh, even though I don't love the the way Steele handles this, it's still, I guess maybe this is why it works. It's still funny.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:35

Yeah, so she understands his predicament, but the question is, and then she suddenly stops, her eyes widen in horror, her hands begin to shake, and she slams the magazine shut. Stevens waits. Time passes. Finally, Stevens asks, What's the question? And Laura stares, a blank, wide, wide-eyed, wild-eyed look frozen on her face. Stephanie is so good here. Unable to process Stevens' question.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:03

Because like you have to imagine that not only is there like the shame, the humiliation, all that going through her head, but also the I'm gonna kill him, I'm gonna rip his throat out, I'm gonna rip it out, I'm gonna shove it up his camera. Um like she's just she's plotting murder at the same time that she's just like so embarrassed, and so like, but it's all on her face, like she's just she looks like she's about to cry and murder somebody at the same time, and it's brilliant. Like her acting is just perfect here.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:34

Well, Steele, uh, at Laura's lack of contact with the real world at this point, steps in saying, The question is, what are we going to do about Vinoff? And as he grabs the magazine out of Laura's hand, says, This trash. Laura snatches the magazine back from Steele. He reaches over and begins to rip it back from her hands. It's already on the newsstands, he informs Stevens as Laura grabs the magazine again, clutching it to her chest. Steele continues, turning to look at Laura, saying, It's probably at hundreds of newsstands throughout the city. Oh. And thousands across the country, Stevens adds.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:12

She looks like she's gonna be sick.

unknown 1:46:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:14

She just looks like she's gonna throw up.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:18

Laura begins to speak, and although she is clearly having trouble not only getting the words out, but focusing on them as well, she asks Stevens if they promise to deliver his wife's negatives to him, will he leave Vienhoff alone? And Stevens joyously says, Well, absolutely, positively. And Laura assures him that they'll get right on it. Steele, recognizing that Laura has turned from being Vienhoff's defender to wanting to be the first person in line to kill him, tells Stevens not to worry about Vienhoff because he's got a feeling that he's gonna get what's coming to him. As Steele and Laura are leaving, Stevens calls out to Laura, Miss Holt, I I have a funny feeling I've seen you somewhere before.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:04

Deal deer in headlights, deer in headlights. She just looks like oh no, oh no, oh no.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:09

And she tries to dismiss his suggestion, but he's insistent, saying it will come back to him.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:15

Ford never forgets a face.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:17

Yes, Emily says that, and Steele twists the knife a bit with his comment of ah, photographic memory, eh? Get the joke.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:27

Yeah, I get the joke. I get the joke. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:30

Steele g or Laura gives Steele a very nervous look, and Stevens suddenly snaps his finger and begins nodding with a grin on his face.

Steele's reaction sparks a debate about betrayal

SPEAKER_05 1:47:38

Century Plaza Hotel, presidential primary, 1984. You are wearing some sort of provocative gown. And Laura doesn't say anything. She just turns and leaves. Steele grins and gives a wink. I think Stevens just covered for Laura.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:54

I I wondered that too, because it it's one of those things where we don't we don't know if he's seen her in the magazine, but pr presumably he has. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:09

I mean flipping through to pay and get to the pages, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:14

Um however, if if not, and there was a presidential primary provocative gown situation, I want I want that fanfic. I want somebody to write it. Because Steele says, Where was I? And she just kind of rushes him off. So I I'd like to know where was he and and how provocative. But yeah, no, I think you're right. I think he did kind of cover for her. I think he either that or he covered for himself, because if he said, Well, yeah, you're on page 42, you're the baby of the month, then his wife's gonna be like, Oh, I'm sorry, you've been flipping through the pages. Yeah, that's true. Like he's probably this is probably more to protect himself because like they're neighbors uh in that magazine, right? He's not gonna want to admit he's been proving on the neighbor, like, oh, she looks good.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:55

Well, next, Laura and Steele are driving through the dark streets, and after a moment, Steele asks the question you just referred to. Provocative gown, presidential primary, where was I? Mind on the case, Mr. Steele, she snaps. We may have gotten Vinoff off the hook with Stevens, but he's not off the hook with me. Which is almost an indication that Laura is still not with it because if Steele doesn't know about the photo in the magazine of Laura, the that comment makes no sense. Uh in in in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:32

I mean just being angry at the idea in general. But yeah, she does her her reaction is her reaction is way over the top. Like I would be personally, i i if if my picture was not in that magazine, I would be grossed out and I'd be pissed off, and I'd be like, This guy's a sleaze ball, but I wouldn't have the reaction that Laura's had.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:54

Yeah, he he's he's got a lot of things to answer for would be the kind of response you would give. Not he's uh He's not off the hook with me. Why would he be on the hook with you?

SPEAKER_00 1:50:04

She's gonna kill him.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:05

Steele comments that obviously.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:07

She's gonna ring wring his fat, greasy neck.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:09

That's coming up. Yeah. After Steele comments, and obviously Vinoff du neglected to tell her that he was peddling his pictures on the side. And that's when that's when Laura says that line about wringing his fat, greasy neck. Uh Steele, who just can't seem to help himself.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:27

Yeah, this is the part where it's like, come on, dude.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:29

Come on, Laura. You're taking this awfully personal. I mean, it's not as though you were between those pages, the object of desire for every slobbering pervert, every sex-starved marine, every convict on death row who wishes to kind of dude, dude, come on.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:49

This is the part where I'm just like, it should be funny. And it is. Don't get me wrong, I have this two reactions where I'm like, I'm giggling at it because it is hilarious. But I'm also like.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:01

Shouldn't you be angry on her behalf? Like, shouldn't this be the point where you've realized that she didn't know about this? She's a victim too.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:10

And you're gonna ring his fat. Like, maybe it would have been even as funny or funnier if he had been like right there with her, realizing that she didn't you mean you didn't know? Right? And then I'm gonna you're the the object of every sex-starved marine, every slobbering boobard, every convict on like getting angrier and angrier as he says it. It could have been just as funny that way.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:34

Especially because she's like, Can you stop, please? Yeah, I've got a headache. She doesn't want to hear it.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:43

And I think it's at this point that Steele might recognize that he stepped a little too far over the line. And he raises his hand in surrender, saying, All right, all right. Well, back at the loft, Laura storms in, threatening Vienhoff. He's not there. Mildred isn't there. As Laura looks around, Steele, with some aggravation, comments that Vienhoff's wonderlust is really starting to annoy him. Laura pulls her jacket around her, then begins stomping out of the loft, saying to no one in particular, I'm gonna find that creep and bury him. At the office, Viennoff is looking at the photos on Steele's wall as Mildred is talking on the phone. What do you mean, Tijuana? What spare parts? No, no. Listen to me. I don't care if you've got 5,000 stolen cars on your books. I have got to have that Auburn back. When? Yesterday was too late.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:35

Oh, Mildred trying to get that Auburn is just great. I love it.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:39

And she slams down the phone. I I saw a meme a while back about that, about how people these young people these days, especially, will never know the intense satisfaction of slamming down a phone in anger.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:55

It's true. It's not the same as you oh yeah? Well, goodbye.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:59

Yeah, I push the button.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:01

Right. Like it's just not the same. There's just like a there's a that's like you just hit it down.

SPEAKER_05 1:53:07

And you hit it down and the bell rings.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:10

Yes, it makes that little dingy sound. Exactly. I had a friend once who this was back in like the early 2000s before smartphones were a thing when you just had those like flip phones. Right. And I was over at her house, and she she's one of those people that I like, she's just she's the kind of person that you want to be because she just has so much spontaneity and she she's just so crazy, and like you just anyway, we were sitting there and she's on the phone, and I don't remember what it was, but it was some sort of office or some kind of bureaucratic thing that they were giving her the run around and she was just getting angrier and angrier, and finally she just got so mad that she uh she yelled at them and then she took the phone and literally ripped it in half. Like this was a flip phone that she had like ripped in half and threw across the room, and I'm like standing there with my mouth gaping. Like, don't you need a new phone now? And she's like, Yeah, that feels a lot better. And I'm just like, You just I mean, that that would maybe be satisfying, but you can't even do that with a smartphone. It's just tap, tap, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:54:12

And the thing is, those old phones like that, most of them, especially the ones that sat on a desk where it had the cradle integrated into the case, like you typically have in your house, you could slam that receiver down onto that thing and it it wouldn't break, it would ring that bell, but it wouldn't break the phone.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:32

Yeah. You know what I just realized? This is gonna sound crazy, but just thinking about Vienhoff selling those photos without without having with the without these women having signed a release, presumably, is technically trafficking. He is trafficking pornographic materials.

SPEAKER_05 1:54:48

Yes, and at at that time there was it was probably I know there had been some things about interstate pornographic um trafficking, but I don't think you know, since the magazine was arguably legal, I don't think the photographs themselves would also photograph the phone.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:07

No, okay, so trafficking would be illegal, but photos, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:55:10

Like but um certainly there's yeah, there's there's a lot of civil liability.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:17

Yeah, and this is this is one of those things where in this in the 1980s, this would have been like this issue has become a lot more pronounced in our media because of smartphones, right? Because now it's not just about did you go to a professional studio and have your picture taken and that person has sold your picture illegally. This is literally I've taken this picture and sent it to my partner, and it was meant for my partner only, but then my partners took it and and showed it to a bunch of people or sent like there there's a porn website called Pornhub that has been in the news a a lot recently, and it's partly because it's um uh a Canadian-owned website that I'm aware of this, but because we've seen it in the news, a lot of the videos that end up on that site are homemade tapes that the w this one of the partners, usually the guy, but not always, has sent to the site without the other person knowing it. And generally this has happened after they've broken up. Like they've even coined a term for it, revenge porn. Right? So a lot of these women don't even know that they're now on a porn site, and the lawmakers have struggled to keep up with it because they don't know where this falls in terms of legality issues. You take a picture, you send it to somebody else, it's meant for that person, but what happens when they take that picture and give it to a website or put it somewhere it shouldn't be? That goes back to that documentary I was telling about the most hated man on the internet, where like that website he ran where people would just send their ex's pictures to him, and he just kind of went, Well, I don't know if the pictures are being sent to me with consent or not. I'm just assuming they are, so it's not my fault. Um Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:57:07

Yeah, and there's not to defend it, but there's a a a legal argument that could be made. I don't know how valid it is, because I'm not an attorney, I just play one on TV. But I mean you there is I'm sure a lot of lawyers out there that would make the argument that, hey, this photograph was sent to this person. It's their photograph, they're entitled to do with it what they want.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:33

Yeah, it like that's what I mean by it's a it's a and especially when it comes to say teenagers now, it's becoming an increasingly more difficult issue because if you're underage, technically that's child pornography.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:46

And that means as well that the person you sent it to could also be liable for possession of without even realizing, like, say you've got two teenage kids, right? One of them is, I don't know, 18, right? You got an 18-year-old guy and a 16-year-old girl. They're close enough in age that you wouldn't think much of it. But the minute she sends him a picture of herself naked, he's the one that's on the hook, presumably, because now he's in possession of child pornography. She's a minor under the age of 18.

SPEAKER_05 1:58:14

Like it's there's but then in he can make the argument that she sent it to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:20

Yeah, like it's it's what I that's what I mean, though. It's because the the the this whole thing is.

SPEAKER_05 1:58:27

The child pornography laws are intended to prevent exploitation of children. But if the child in question is the initiator, then then there's this whole, you know, argument that somebody can make be made uh of that that says, well, he's not at fault because he didn't initiate it. He was not exploiting her.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:49

You've also got though that there's there they have like statutory rape laws too, right? That technically you could have somebody sleep with somebody underage, and that person underage might have consented, but because they are a minor, the law says they're not able to. So that could fall under that heading as well. Like, yes, she might have sent that picture willingly, but under the head under the law, she's a minor. But either way, like this this is sort of the start of it. This is where it begins, right? Because there digital photos, smartphones, they didn't exist back then. But the idea that you take a picture or you have somebody take a picture, you pay them to take your picture, the I the presumption there is that the only people that are gonna see that photo are you, the client, and whatever you do with that is up to you and the person taking the photo, unless a release is signed. So there's very clear laws in regards to that, or at least it seems like there were, right? Like he could get in a lot of trouble for peddling these pictures without permission, as opposed to now, where it seems to be a bit of a wild west, because we're not really sure legally where these where this falls.

SPEAKER_05 1:59:53

You know, it just as you were saying that, it just occurs to me that very often and I'm gonna say say this with some a lot of caveats that are going to be in there, that photographers may have actually created this problem for themselves. Because when you go into a photo studio, one of the things they generally have you sign is a form that acknowledges that A, they own the photographs, they own the negatives, they own the images. You are not paying them to own those photographs, you are paying them to A, take the photographs, and then B, you pay them for copies that you are allowed to own and and keep. And uh so, in that, one of the things they often will do is include a closet, they can use these things for promotional materials within their own studio. And uh it would be uh, I suppose, easy for a I was gonna say disreputable lawyer, but that that might be um redundant. Um for a a sleazy lawyer to argue that, well, look, he's uh he's promoting his business by selling them to this magazine. And you authorized him to promote it, use them for you know promoting his business. The photography studios have kind of created this problem, I think, for themselves because they want to claim ownership over the images that they are quote creating for the client, even though the client is saying, I want you to take these photographs of me because I want these photographs. The the the photographer at that point, it it's a more of a work for hire situation, which under the the law, as I understand it here, at least here in the US, that if you hire somebody to do something under the terms of work for hire, they don't own the work. You do because you initiated the work for hire request. So by trying to keep ownership of those images, and and I understand they make their money by selling you the prints, but uh they've they've kind of created this situation where they've become kind of responsible for the the the problem uh of of this sort of thing where they can become the the conduit to these types of situations.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:20

And and yeah, it's um yeah, and and I think that goes back to what we were saying with the slideshow. You're right. If if they signed something that said these these photos belong to the studio, then they can be used for promotion, then yeah, he might have been able to legally use those those slideshow photos of previous clients as a way to advertise his business within the the studio. However, the minute you sign you sell it to an outside party, then a release has to be signed by I would imagine because when I did um I had a a small video on the DVD of um Juliet Landau's documentary, A Place Among the Dead, and she encouraged fans to send in their little videos. It was on the extras, right? But I had to sign a release allowing that to happen, right? Right. And the same I had in our um I was interviewed by a uh magazine a while back, and again, they I had to send in a picture of myself and authorize that it be used in that magazine.

SPEAKER_05 2:03:19

And and in the situation where that's clearly the reason they're doing that, then yeah. But you know, sometimes it's not what you're doing or what your intention is, it's how you how you word it. So uh for example, in a a news story, uh documentaries, even, uh it's not necessary in a lot of cases to get releases from people because it's a factual document. And if these were sold as marketing material for Vienhoff photography, and then the magazine reproduced them. You know, you understand what I'm saying? Is that sometimes it's not about what you did, it's about how you frame it and ha the context in which you explain it.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:10

Well, I mean, Wienhoff is is a sleaze. He's doing whatever he can for for money. Um and the fact that it's not even Laura, right? It's it's what that's the probably the worst part of it is that it's not even her body, but everyone will think it is. So this woman who he's used is is there and exposed, but she's at least protected in the sense that it's not her face.

SPEAKER_05 2:04:37

Right. But Laura's the one you know, you gotta give Vienhoff props though, because as I was saying earlier, we're talking about physical photographs that have to be manipulated. He took Laura's head from one photograph, cut it out, placed it onto another photograph, and did it so well that it nobody even questions it. I mean, the guy's a wizard in the dark room.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:00

Which is if he could use those powers for good, he might have a uh a decent artistic photography business, but yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:05:10

Uh anyway, after Mildred slams down the phone, uh Vienhoff asks, You hungry? Well, great. Yeah, let's let's just ignore the fact that she's upset. Just, hey, you hungry? Uh Mildred has had it with Wienhoff. Uh that that was the last draw. She collars him, asking him how he can think of food at a time like this. They have killers on their tail and no wheels. Well, Vienhoff applies the same logic that Steele did in Steel Trying that if he's gonna die, he might as well do it on a full stomach. Mildred tells him not to whine. He makes her wish she was dead. Vienhoff doesn't understand what's going on. He's getting the feeling that Mildred's got something against him because she's been putting him down all day.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:52

What gave him that idea? She's so subtle.

SPEAKER_05 2:05:56

Yeah. And she says, Oh, it's your job. What about it? It stinks. And then he goes into the soliloquy here, which may or may not be true.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:08

I know. I got the feeling part of it was, and part of it was like it yeah, he comes across really sincere at the beginning, and then at the end, he comes across as not.

SPEAKER_05 2:06:17

And it's well, he he very quick at the very beginning. I think he's he's telling the truth, but then he very quickly veers off into what I think is fantasy. Uh he starts, hey Mildred, let me tell you something. When I was maybe five, my dad bought me my first camera. Okay, I'm gonna say that's probably true. It was an old box kind of thing with a great lens, worn leather case, but I loved that camera. Probably true. He was a sculptor, my dad. Worked in advertising. You know, I think we might be getting a little bit strained from the truth. And his father was a sculptor. Well, mostly he was a farmer, but he loved to sculpt the ice in the in the wintertime. Okay, I'm gonna say that's probably true. He was a farmer who sculpted ice. Okay. So, but Mildred's buying into the story, and she gently asks, Well, what about your mother? He says, She believed in me. I wouldn't be doing this boudoir stuff if I could sell my serious pictures, Mildred. You don't believe me, do you? Okay, I'm gonna say that no, he would be still doing this the boudoir stuff if he could sell serious pictures. I'm wondering whether he actually has any serious pictures.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:22

Yeah, that's kind of what I got too. Well, I he must, because he took Laura's portrait. Right? He he must do it.

SPEAKER_05 2:07:28

But that's no, that's that's that's photo booth stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:32

Right, but she obviously knew to go to him, which means he's got some sort of other presence as a photographer beyond just his boudoir business. Well And he he was looking at those pictures on Laura's wall with genuine interest and uh in the medium. So I'm I I don't don't get me wrong, I'm not defending it.

SPEAKER_05 2:07:50

I'm I'm gonna say that when he said serious pictures, he was meaning high-end stuff like Ansel Adams type photography. I don't think he's anywhere close to that. I think he's I think the serious pictures phrase is just his cover. He does the the regular portrait stuff as I'm not gonna say as his cover for the boudoir stuff, but it gives him some legitimacy that the boudoir stuff doesn't. And how did Laura get connected up with him? I'm not gonna say it's because of his great photography. I'm gonna say it's just because somebody she needed somebody cheap and somebody said, Hey, you know, I know this guy.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:30

Yeah, no, I'm not saying that. I'm not implying he's a real artist in any stretch, but I'm I'm wondering if he feels like he wants to be.

SPEAKER_05 2:08:39

Oh, he's got oh, he's got nevisions of grandeur to be sure.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:41

Right. Like he he because he he was looking at those pictures on on the wall with genuine interest, and and yeah, I I mean I agree. He doesn't have any serious pictures. He's and and I think he would still be doing honestly, I think he'd still be doing the boudoir stuff because he can see women naked for I I think he would give up the portrait stuff if he could just do the boudoir stuff and nobody would question it.

SPEAKER_05 2:09:05

Yeah. Anyway, Mildred gets a grin on her face when uh that's that grin she gives when she knows she's being conned, but she just can't help herself. Uh um you know, because the person conning her is just so adorable. So she says, Well, maybe I can make us a pot of coffee.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:23

Yeah, she does kind of relent on him a little bit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:09:27

Vinoff thankfully says, Yeah, could tight us over. Then after a moment, asks, Maybe a cookie? Okay, that he did it again. Mildred turns and shakes his finger, her finger at him, telling him he's going too far now. Well, back at Viennoff studio, studio uh Steele flips on a light as he and Laura are walking through the hall to the stage. They stop, survey

The case culminates in a studio shootout

SPEAKER_05 2:09:50

the scene, seemingly not certain why they're there. Obviously to serve the plot, since Steele suggests that they call it a night and that they pick up the scent in the morning. So you're just gonna walk in, take a quick look around, and then leave. Yeah, right. So anyway, they turn and go, and we hear the click of a gun. They turn to see golf club man, who's now handgun man, uh come out of the hiding. And irritated, Steele points at him, accusing him of being a regular fixture there. Laura asks Steele if he really knows this guy. Steele remarks that they have a passing acquaintance. And the man says, I can't afford to be a nice guy anymore, Vienhoff. I want those files. Laura steps forward and tells the man that he isn't Vienhoff. Of course, he doesn't believe her, but he also doesn't see the man at the far end of the stage coming out slowly from behind the curtain. Steele warns the man that before he starts anything, he should probably know that there's an FBI agent right behind him.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:48

Laura confused, looks at Steele, says, You know he had two? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:10:54

Well, golf club man suddenly turns, sees the man at the far end of the room, and fires at him. The what we now believe to be a fake FBI agent dives to the floor as the unidentified man continues to fire a few more shots before he turns and runs. The fake FBI agent takes off in pursuit. Laura gets up. Steele remains on the floor, and after a moment, Laura asks, How does Steele know that that guy is FBI? And of course, they don't know he's a fake yet. And Steele admits that, well, he came to the office that morning. And Laura is livid. The FBI came to our office and you didn't tell me? You came down here to the studio and didn't tell me? And Steele angrily responds that he would have, but he was too busy trying to figure out what it was that she wasn't telling him. And that kind of pushes Laura over the edge. You knew that picture was in that magazine all along, didn't you? You, you, you. And Steele.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:51

Sly devil.

SPEAKER_05 2:11:53

Sly devil.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:56

Does he really want a prize? What did he think she was gonna do after he said Sly Devil? Wink? Fall into his arms?

SPEAKER_01 2:12:07

Like, does he want to die? Because right now she's really mad and Vienhoff is not there to kill.

SPEAKER_05 2:12:12

So how did he even get to the point of thinking she would think he was a sly devil?

SPEAKER_01 2:12:18

No, that's my point. Like, is he insane?

unknown 2:12:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:12:22

Well, that that sly devil comment, that's it. Laura just explodes and yells, pervert! Still can't believe it. PURVERT! Your picture appears in a porno magazine and the pervert. Isn't my picture? And of course she turns and stomps out.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:43

And he's left looking so confused. That's right. What did I just stumble into? How did this happen? What is going on here?

SPEAKER_05 2:12:53

And how am I the pervert if she's in the magazine? And how is it that it's not her if she's in the magazine?

SPEAKER_01 2:12:58

Yeah, he's really confused about that because he's and probably I wonder, because again, if we go by the theory that they are not sleeping together, which canonically that is supposed to be what's what's happening, that he thought for at least a good chunk of this episode that he got a free glimpse at the Promised Land, so to speak, right? And now he's like, wait, wait, those weren't that that wasn't her that's not her. I think he committed that image to memory, right? And he's just been going back to it over and over and over again, and now it's like, oh crap, it's not her.

SPEAKER_05 2:13:35

Outside the studio, we see a red sports car of some type speed away, and we get a passing glance at part of the license plate number. Colby, the fake FBI agent, is standing on one side and apparently gets a better look at the license plate because he jots it down in his notebook, walks over to a payphone, makes a call. After a moment, he says, Forget Vinoff. I found him. Back at the office, Mildred and Vinoff are enjoying their coffee when Laura and Steele walk in. Mildred greets them and tells Steele that the uh supposed FBI agents aren't FBI agents. Laura walks over to Vinoff and slaps his arm and says, I've got just two words for you. Bedside babes. I have never felt more humiliated, more ashamed, or more violated in my life. Whatever possessed you to put my face on that picture.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:26

She's and this, like, I'm sorry, Vienhoff. What is wrong with you with this response? Does he want to die? Does he want to die?

SPEAKER_05 2:14:37

Because Well, but the thing is, as he's saying this, the only thing he does is get this uh-oh, unbusted look on his face. It's not not regret, just no unbusted.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:49

He's like, oh crap, I've been caught. And you it takes a lot of, I gotta say this, it takes some balls, okay? First of all, to sell this woman's picture without her knowledge and then to hire her to protect you from the people coming after you because you've sold a bunch of other pictures without their wow, that takes some cojones to assume she's not gonna find out and and not gonna kill you if she does.

SPEAKER_05 2:15:15

Like And of course, as she's doing this and as Vinoff's getting that look on his face, Laura grabs his vest and begins shaking him so hard that his coffee splashes out of his cup. And and and in response to her her question, whatever possessed you, Vinoff nods and just casually says, Well, hey, I I needed the money.

SPEAKER_02 2:15:34

I needed the money. Like, what is it?

SPEAKER_05 2:15:36

Laura looks at him for a moment in just absolute disbelief. I know, I love you needed the money.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:45

I love the way she says this because Stephanie could have played this off with anger the way she she did the last line, right? Because she's furious. But just hearing him say that, I think anybody might react this way, that they're just so baffled that any human being could do something and then just blatantly say, I needed the money. You know like she's speechless.

SPEAKER_00 2:16:12

She's so flabbergasted. You need the money? Like, that's your excuse? You can't even come up with a good excuse.

SPEAKER_05 2:16:21

Well, and and then he he tries to explain and he doesn't work as if it's the most reasonable thing in the world. It's you know, he has this great deal going on with the magazine Ohio. They buy his pictures, no questions asked. You know, he never dreamed anybody would find out. I mean, after all, it's a time Ohio.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:39

And to be fair, no offense to anybody who lives in Ohio, but I've been through Ohio. But yeah, he probably just thought it was so far away that nobody in LA would see it because the magazine's in Ohio. But come on.

unknown 2:16:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:54

You have a relative in Ohio, you know, maybe you're you're saying your picture ends up in that magazine. Somebody sees it. Like it's possible.

SPEAKER_05 2:17:02

He had to know that the magazine had national distribution.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:05

Well, yeah, because it's on the newsstands in LA. So clearly it's not just Ohio that these pictures are being sold to. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:17:12

And he continues saying he continues trying to explain it as if just reasonable things. He had a great shot of a gal with a body of a Venus de Milo, but the face of Buster Keaton is like Yeah, so she he basically has just said she's got butterface.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:27

Right? Like everything's nice but her face.

SPEAKER_05 2:17:30

I haven't heard that one before.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:31

No, you've never heard butterface? Yeah, she's got butterface. I would uh everything's nice butterface.

SPEAKER_05 2:17:36

I I've heard of the phrase two-bagger, one for you and one for her. So you don't have to look at her.

SPEAKER_02 2:17:45

No, I've never heard that one, but butterface is a is one that I've yeah, everything's nice but her face.

SPEAKER_05 2:17:50

Like anyway.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:52

To be fair though, here's the thing. Okay, even if her face was hideous, how many people are gonna be looking at her face buying that magazine?

SPEAKER_05 2:18:00

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:01

Right? Like, and and how many are gonna care when you've got you're not looking at it for the stuff from the neck up, you're looking at it for the stuff from the neck down.

SPEAKER_05 2:18:09

Well, that's pretentious. That's true of most people, yeah. Uh well, at the Buster Keaton comment, Steele grins and gives out with a devious chuckle until he sees Laura staring daggers at him.

SPEAKER_00 2:18:21

Why is he still laughing at this? This is not funny anymore.

SPEAKER_05 2:18:25

Like And saying where Vienhoff was going with his explanation supplies that Vienhoff must have done just a little bit of dark room magic to put Laura's face on another woman's body. And Vienhoff grins proudly at his cleverness and excitedly he calls it digital retouching. It's the latest thing. Yeah, okay. Maybe at this point digital photographer uh digital editing was starting to be available, but I don't think it would be the kind of thing Vienhoff could have afforded at that time. I mean, at this time I looked it up. I think the it was the IBM XT, which was the one of the very first personal computers for home use. It was like $10,000 for minimal memory and like a 10-megabyte hard drive, you know.

SPEAKER_01 2:19:20

So I just googled it because I wandered that too. Seriously, keep going and I'll tell you after.

SPEAKER_05 2:19:24

And and um I think at the this time the I don't remember which Mac was available. It would have might might have been the Lisa. I don't 85, 85 was I don't think the Macintosh was out yet. But even even so, I mean, you you couldn't buy uh a desktop computer for anything remotely resembling a reasonable price, and the software was was expensive as well. I don't think Vienhoff could have afforded this.

SPEAKER_01 2:19:59

So So, okay, yeah. So they do have okay, so I Googled was digital editing available in 1985 for photography? And by and large, the answer is no. There are some exceptions, but it says that digital photo editing was not widely available or commercially viable in 1985. The technology and hardware for digital image manipulation, along with the first consumer digital cameras, obviously he's not talking about a camera, but an editing software like Photoshop emerged in the early to mid-1990s. While the underlying technology such as the charge coupled device for image sensors existed, the computing power and storage needed for practical digital editing were limited, emerging in a nonlinear video editing system called Harry in 1985, but not widely for photography until the following decade. So, like it's there.

SPEAKER_05 2:20:48

Also, since he was working on f uh in a film-based format, he would have had to have had a scanner.

SPEAKER_01 2:20:55

Yeah. Yeah, because then I came across a YouTube video which I can't watch right now, but it does say uh revolution in the days before Photoshop 1984, a revolutionary new form of digital imaging. The process involves taking an original image or pr picture with maybe a photograph or something which has been painted or drawn, and then it cuts off because it's just a description. So I'm guessing you could do something, but nothing I I I find it hard to believe that it would be because you pointed this out earlier that he must be good at it because he's put her her head on this woman's body and it looks believable in the magazine. I find it hard to believe that it would be personally. But I don't know. I mean you see you s tabloid magazines, uh you know, my alien my husband's an alien or whatever. They have pictures like that all the time. So who knows how they were able to do it, but yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:21:48

So um, yeah, excitedly, Vienhoff calls it digital retouching, and it's the latest thing, and they should see the shots he's got of UFOs flying through San Francisco. And determined to get the conversation back on the track, Laura bends over, getting into Viennoff's face, and demands to know if anyone other than Ford Stevens threatened him for his files. And Vienhoff suspiciously asks, You mean, besides his clients' husbands? Oh my god. Laura and walks away in frustration. And Viennoff leans forward and tells Steele, jealousy. Jealousy is an epidemic in this country. An epidemic. I mean, most of those guys love the pictures of their wives, but then it occurs to them somebody had to take those pictures. Now they freak out. One guy actually threatened to bash my head in with a golf club.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:41

Okay, let's be clear here. Because he's being selectively obtuse, right? Because yes, I'm sure there are probably some husbands who received the pictures and got jealous that someone took them. That wasn't them, sure. But most of them aren't mad that he took the pictures. Most of them are mad because he put them in a magazine or sold them elsewhere. Where, like, come on, dude. They're not mad that you took the pictures. They're mad that they ended up in bedside babes. Like, there's a difference here.

SPEAKER_05 2:23:13

Well, the mention of the golf club threat gets Steele's attention and he asks what the guy looked like. Vinoff says he doesn't know because they only talked to him on the phone. Laura asks Steele, the man in the studio? You're welcome, Captain, obvious. Steele only goes so far as to say, possibly, then asks Vinoff if there was anyone else. Well, those two guys that said they were talent agency, uh, talent agents, he says. Mildred clarifies that he means the FBI guys offered him 20 grand for his files. Vinoff says he jumped at the offer, but before he could get anything together, he comments that his filing system is not exactly up to date. Guys started pouring out of the woodwork. He came to the conclusion that he wasn't going to get a chance to spend the 20,000 bucks, so when Laura suggested that he hole up until she gets some things straightened out, he jumped at that too. Well, the guy's an opportunist everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:06

He is the worst of the worst. Like he's just awful.

SPEAKER_05 2:24:11

Mildred asks, What it is in the files that makes him so valuable. Vinoff says, Well, other than names, addresses, and maybe negatives, he doesn't know. Laura asks, How many other pictures he sold to bedside babes? And Vinoff, not wanting to be too specific, claiming he doesn't know. You know, maybe a couple. Steele walks over to the desk, or excuse me, Laura walks over to the desk, grabs the magazine, and refusing to look at Vinoff, holds it out behind her, demanding Vinoff to identify which couple. Of course, this is also presuming that we're not talking about any prior issues.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:49

Well, that's the thing, right? Because he's been it's probably been doing it for a while. Yeah, this is not new, so gross.

SPEAKER_05 2:24:57

Well, as Vienov begins to flip through the pages, Steele asks Laura for the theory that she's obviously develop developing. She points out that the common denominator here seems to be that magazine. The phony FBI came looking for her to get to Viennoff to get to somebody whose picture is in that magazine. And almost as soon as Mildred asks, yeah, but who? Viennoff holds the magazine out, folded back to a specific page and says, Her. Laura, handing the magazine to Mildred, who looks at the photo in question, then shows it to Steele, wants a name. Viennoff doesn't remember, but guesses that it's in his files. Laura grabs him and starts pulling him toward the door, saying, Let's just hope we can get to them before they do. Steele follows, leaving Mildred behind. We next see Colby on a payphone outside a convenience store. Rhodes sitting in the car behind him. Colby is telling somebody named Sal that he's the one with the connections, so use them to trace the license number and make it snappy. He knows they're on to him. He hangs up, asks Rhodes if he wants anything. Rhodes says, Yeah, ham and cheese, no mayo, and a little mustard. And see if they can warm it up for me. Back at Vinoff's studio, Laura, Steele, and Vinoff are plowing through the drawers of photographs and negatives. It's clear that they are having trouble finding what they're looking for, prompting Laura to comment that she thought Vinoff said he knew where everything was. He says he does. It's right here. Right here, of course, meaning somewhere in this disorganized chaos of his filing cabinets and non-existent filing systems.

SPEAKER_01 2:26:31

It's kind of like a trend with guys like this, right? Where, yeah, I've got on my whole filing system. It's all in order if order didn't exist.

SPEAKER_05 2:26:41

He says he does have plans to eventually put it all on a computer someday when the prices go down. Which again plays into the fact that he probably didn't have a computer, so how could he do the digital retouching? Yeah. This is where I put in some uh pricing information. 1985 Commodore Amiga price tag twelve hundred ninety-five dollars, adjusted for inflation price thirty two eighty. The IBM PCXT with 640k of RAM. 640K of RAM. That's your basic word processing file these days is bigger than that. I know uh two 360k uh five and a quar uh five and a half inch floppy drives and a 10 megabyte hard drive would have cost uh $4,400 equivalent to $10,700 in today's dollars.

SPEAKER_01 2:27:26

The amount of stuff you can do on your phone alone compared to those computers from like it's it's insane to think about.

SPEAKER_05 2:27:33

In fact, when I was in in high school, I had a I had a teacher, I don't remember what class it was in, say that in a simple, handheld, basic four-function calculator, you held more power in your hand than NASA had for all the computers that put somebody on the moon.

SPEAKER_01 2:27:56

That's true. That is true, actually, because yeah, they had to it turned out to be people that did a lot of that math as opposed to they did have the computers, but they weren't.

SPEAKER_05 2:28:05

Yeah, they were doing a lot of it on paper. Yeah. Slide rule.

unknown 2:28:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:28:08

Anyway, at the comment about how Vienoff might eventually someday put all this stuff on a computer when the prices come down, Laura Snidley remarks that she pities the computer. Yeah, no kidding. Well, at the about the same time, Steele announces that they found the information they are looking for. He reads the information off. Eileen Fitzgerald, care of Castle Rock, 12312 Victory Boulevard. Laura questions, Castle Rock? Vienhoff says, Yeah, now he remembers. Miniature golf course out in the valley. But there's no home address. Laura says, Let's see if Mildred can dig one up. Laura and Steele turn to leave, and Vienhoff surveys the wreckage that Laura and Steele left of the mess. Yeah, right. That was Vienhoff studio to begin with, then sarcastically says, Sure, leave a mess.

SPEAKER_01 2:28:59

I'm sorry, but after all you've done, that's yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:29:04

Well, his his place was a mess mess to begin with. How would he tell? How could he tell what they messed up?

SPEAKER_01 2:29:11

Well, but when it's your mess, you know your mess. It's just when it yeah. Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:29:17

Anyway, back at the office, Mildred is being frustrated. Credit rating for Eileen Fitzgerald, not available. Credit card information for Eileen Fitzgerald, not available. In fact, nothing she searches for relating to Eileen Fitzgerald is available. Laura observes that Eileen Fitzgerald has less of a past than Mr. Steele. Bold thing to say with a client sitting right there.

SPEAKER_01 2:29:40

Right. I thought that too. Like, why are you saying that out loud?

SPEAKER_05 2:29:43

Yeah. Of course, it's only Viennoff. I mean, not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed. Anyway, Steele asks about the location of the agency's gun as he starts looking through the drawers. And Laura confirms that she thinks it's in a drawer. Again, the careless attitude about guns.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:04

I don't know. As much as I advocate for proper gun, responsible gun ownership ownership, this is funny. It's always funny. It is always funny that they can't find their gun, and always funny that if they find the gun, they don't know where the bullets are, or vice versa.

SPEAKER_05 2:30:18

Well, as Steele continues to prowl through the drawers, Laura muses What kind of a person has no driver's license, no social security number, no birth certificate, no record of their existence whatsoever. And Steele just out of the blue says, hide in plain sight. Ignoring him, Mildred suggests a murderer. Laura suggests a bigamist. Meenhoff suggests an embezzler. Steele continues, James Conn, Jill Eikenberry, United Artists, 1979. Conn's ex-wife was married to a two-bit felon who testifies against the mob. The FBI gives them a new identity. The whole family disappears, much like our gun, actually. Oh, I like that. Yeah, and and the way he delivers that, it's just like It's like an offhand at a side.

SPEAKER_01 2:31:08

Much like a gun.

SPEAKER_05 2:31:10

Without a pause. The whole family disappears, much like our gun, actually. Laura slinks over to Mildred and in a conspiratorial tone tells her, Don't quote me, but lead me onto something. See what you can dig up about the Federal Witness Protection Program. Well, as Steele and Laura move to the other offices to search for the missing agency gun and bullets, Mildred turns to her computer to begin her research.

SPEAKER_02 2:31:35

The guy that comes in just now. He's he's hilarious.

SPEAKER_05 2:31:39

Yes. Then we see this figure outside the office doors. He's tall, wearing a fedora and a long rumpled trench coat, and looking like he isn't on friendly terms with his razor.

SPEAKER_04 2:31:50

No.

SPEAKER_05 2:31:50

He enters the office, stalks toward the desk, and asks, somebody hire a P.I. Mildred shushes him, then begins pawing through papers on her desk, looking for a Polaroid photograph. As Laura and Steele return to the office lobby, Steele announces he's found the gun. Laura announcing she's found the uh no, Steele announcing he's found the bullets, Laura announcing she's found the gun. Mildred grabs the man in the trench coat and starts pulling him back toward the front doors, telling him, I've found that the best place to go with a problem like yours is the police. Steele begins loading the gun. Laura suggests that maybe somebody at Castle Rock can give them a line on Eileen Fitzgerald, and Vinoff tells Steele, hide in plain sight was brilliant. Steele, missing Vienhoff's admiration. Totally missing the point.

SPEAKER_03 2:32:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:32:39

Not brilliant, really. A bit dull, actually. But not a bad idea, though, huh?

SPEAKER_01 2:32:45

I love the fact that the PI is your like your stereotypical, like he's in a trench coat, he's got the five o'clock shot, like he looks like something that walked out of a Sam Spade novel.

unknown 2:32:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:32:57

And it's just funny. It's because a PI firm hiring a PI.

SPEAKER_05 2:33:03

Well, outside in the hollow, Mildred has brought the PI to the elevator to get him out of the building and handing him the Polaroid, she tells him that it's a 1936 supercharged speedster. License plate Auburn one. And confused, Trenchcoat asks the question you just uh mentioned. Why does she want him to find it? Observing that they're a PI firm. Mildred tries to laugh it off, saying, We're a big PI firm. Stolen cars are small potatoes. As she shoves Trenchcoat into the elevator.

SPEAKER_02 2:33:34

Like, ah, we're too big for this. We outsource.

SPEAKER_05 2:33:38

Well, as she shoves Trenchcoat into the elevator, she tells him that he's got 24 hours. But before the doors close, Laura calls out to hold the elevator. She and Steele enter, telling Mildred to keep an eye on Vinoff. The doors close, and Trenchcoat begins eyeing Laura and Steele, who seem to be wondering who exactly he is and why he's striving them.

SPEAKER_01 2:33:59

Looks terrified. Is those doors shut?

SPEAKER_05 2:34:03

Like she's gonna be found out. Yep. Yep. Back at the convenience store. Colby comes out just as the payphone that he and Rhodes are parked beside starts to ring. Colby rushes over to it to answer it. As he listens, he questions the info he's given. Miniature golf? Are you sure? What's the address? He jots the information down on a notepad. Next we are at a miniature golf course and we see golf club man running up the stairs of the castle.

SPEAKER_02 2:34:32

Golf club man! Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:34:35

At the top, he rushes over to uh Kira. I I mean um Eileen, the woman that Steele had identified from the photos in Beenhaf's file, who is wearing a pair of air rings that really quite frankly look like cheap costume jewelry rings that you might get out of a quarter vending machine. Um sorry if anybody listening is the uh costumer for the show, but I mean they they looked really, really, yeah. Hmm. Uh golf club man puts his arm around her in a gesture of comfort and protection. She asks what time it is. He tells her they have about five minutes. Distressed, she says, How ironic. All this trouble to hide from them, and we turn up right under the noses. Golf club man tries to console her, telling her it wasn't her fault. She didn't know Vinoff was going to sell her pictures to that magazine, but she refuses to let herself off the hook, saying that she's been through this a hundred times in her mind and she never should have had those pictures taken. Um, we also learned that golf club man's name technically is Michael, but he shall henceforth be known as golf club man. Uh golf club man says that regardless of what happened, those pictures were the best birthday present she had ever given him.

SPEAKER_01 2:35:51

I mean, it's kind of sweet in a way when you think about it, right? Like, especially if they they've been on the run for so long. They like something like that might feel like a romantic gesture to feel normal, right? Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:36:08

But again, she refuses to let herself off the hook saying that if she hadn't testified, none of this would have happened to him.

SPEAKER_01 2:36:13

Here's my question. And maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but I was under the impression that with situations like this, with witness protection and whatnot, it's to protect a witness so they can testify. If she says she's already testified, yeah. Why is their life still in danger if she's already testified?

SPEAKER_05 2:36:34

Whatever damage has been done, she's has been a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 2:36:38

Right?

SPEAKER_05 2:36:38

The damage that's been done is only part of it. Because you don't want other people to get the idea that they can testify against you and get away with it. See, you want them in fear, yeah, so much in fear for their life that they know that they better not say anything because even after it's over, you're not safe because they will hunt you down, they will get you eventually. It's first before the trial, it would be to try to stop them from testifying. Afterwards, it's revenge and it's to send a message. Don't cross us or you're dead.

SPEAKER_01 2:37:16

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_05 2:37:17

So um, yeah. And uh people that go into witness protection do disappear forever, basically. Or that's that's the that's the the goal. Anyway, uh he assures her that hey, you're my wife. I love you, we're in this together. But then trying to lighten her mood, he tells her that it could be worse. It could be at her mother's.

SPEAKER_01 2:37:40

He grins at his joke and despite herself like very um affectionate, very sort of realistic couple line. I like that.

SPEAKER_05 2:37:49

Yeah. And he grins at his joke, and despite herself, she smiles back. At the sound of a horn, they turn, and down below they see an armored car coming into the parking lot. Golf club man tells Eileen that it's business as usual. They get the money, they sign for it just like they do every week. And as soon as the armored car people are gone, they're out of there. Where to? she asks. Well, he doesn't have a definitive answer. Just as far as away as they can get on $5,000 and change. And with a sense of pleading, she says that they could call the number. And he says no, because it would just be the same thing all over again. New name, new town, new worthless, no name, do nothing job. No. From now on, they're on their own.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:36

So again, here uh how would how is their situation that stealing this five thousand dollars and running for it gonna change their life any more than calling the number would? They're still gonna be on the run. They're still gonna have to hide. They're still gonna probably end up in jobs that keep them under the radar. Like I really don't know where the benefit is for them.

SPEAKER_05 2:38:57

Well, I guess the only thing that I can think of is that maybe they're concerned that it wasn't just the fact that the photo appeared in the magazine. It was the fact that the photo appeared in the magazine and somebody used information that is available to the FBI about who they're what their new identity is, where they they live now, to locate them physically. See seeing somebody in the magazine, that doesn't necessarily tell you much about them.

SPEAKER_03 2:39:32

Right.

SPEAKER_05 2:39:32

With that information, they might be able to go to the FBI, they've got a mole inside, get that information, and use that to hunt them down and and and kill them. And so he's thinking, well, if there's a mole in the FBI, if we don't involve them, then that's one less avenue for somebody to use to get to us. That's the only thing I can really think of.

SPEAKER_01 2:40:00

Because it just felt to me like they're taking a bit more of a chance by striking off on their own because at least if you call the number, they're gonna put you somewhere theoretically on their own on their dime, right?

SPEAKER_05 2:40:13

Yeah, and theoretically they're also the experts at hiding people.

SPEAKER_01 2:40:16

Yeah. And really, unless, like you said, unless there's a mole, they didn't screw up. It was and I'm not even gonna say it's her fault because she shall be just an unfortunate sequence of events. Yeah, Vienhoff was not supposed to be selling those pictures, so yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:40:33

Uh anyway, um, we see the man from the armored car company walking toward the course with bags of money in each hand. And then down at the bottom of the castle, which apparently doubles as the ticket office to the miniature golf course, we see Eileen and Golf Club Man meeting with the armored car guy. Then we see shots of Eileen and Golf Club Man counting the case. Um counting the case from the armored car. No, counting counting the money from the armored car guy, and that's interscores with shots of Colby and Rose.

SPEAKER_01 2:41:05

The score music in this episode is phenomenal. I love it. It it it feels very similar to Red Holt Steele's score music. Okay. Like that sort of urgent synthesizer score. Okay. Um, it's just really well done.

unknown 2:41:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 2:41:21

Uh the shots of them counting the money are interspersed with shots of Colby and Rhodes driving toward the golf course, as well as shots of Laura and Steele doing the same. We then see Eileen and golf club man wave goodbye to the armored car guy. But as they're walking away from the ticket window, they spot Colby and Rhodes, jump the fence into the course, and then of course head toward them, guns drawn. The two turn to run toward the entrance to get away from Colby and uh Rhodes, but when they get there, Steele and Laura have just come screeching to a halt. So the two of them, thinking maybe that Steele and Laura are also after them in a bad way.

SPEAKER_01 2:41:58

They don't know who they are, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:42:00

Yeah, turn to run yet another direction. Laura and Steele jump the fence into the course, and then the two suspects continue running for their lives, though through various obstacles, including a water trap, until they run out of room and up against the fence. Then they take off in yet another direction, with Colby, Rhodes, Laura, and Remington all still in pursuit. Colby spots Laura and Steele and turns to take a shot at them to deter them, then runs off. Well, the chase is now not just Colby, Rhodes, Laura, and Remington chasing Eileen and golf club man, but it's also Colby pursuing Laura and Remington. Colby fires more shots at Remington and Laura, who are taking cover behind several of the golf course obstacles. And Steele pulls out the agency gun and returns fire.

SPEAKER_01 2:42:47

So here's a question. I think this is the only other time he's fired it, aside from allergy.

SPEAKER_05 2:42:54

Yeah, I think you're right.

SPEAKER_01 2:42:56

Am I right? Yeah. It it it just it struck me when I was watching this. I thought we've only ever seen him as far as I know, and if I'm wrong, other people can can chime in and tell us which episodes I'm forgetting, but I only remember him firing at the what turned out to be a mirror analogy, and then this and Laura. Oh, Laura fired the gun once. I think. In that one where oh, they tackled the woman down the stairs.

SPEAKER_05 2:43:28

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 2:43:29

She was um offhand. Ah, it's gonna bug me.

SPEAKER_05 2:43:32

But even though Steele pulls out the agency revolver and returns fire, apparently he didn't bother to fully load the gun because he only fires three shots.

SPEAKER_01 2:43:42

Maybe they only found three bullets.

SPEAKER_05 2:43:46

Typically a revolver holds six rounds. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:43:48

They said they found bullets, but they didn't say they found six bullets.

SPEAKER_05 2:43:51

Okay. Gotta win the argument, Tony. Uh anyway, after seeing Steele gesture in frustration at his failure to properly load the revolver, leaving him on the short end of a firefight, Laura spots a bucket of balls and a golf club. As Colby continues to fire at Steele, Laura begins to maneuver toward them. Colby runs out of ammo just as Laura reaches the bucket of balls and club. She grabs a ball, picks up the club, spots the ball, lines up her shot as Colby is trying to reload. And apparently Laura is an outstanding pro-level golfer because she hits Colby with the ball on the first try.

SPEAKER_01 2:44:31

She needs to join the women's PGA.

SPEAKER_00 2:44:34

You know, because like that shot is Yeah. It's I'm yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:44:41

That's that's one of those, like, you gotta hand wave it, because for the purpose of the plot.

SPEAKER_05 2:44:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:44:46

Sure. But no way in hell would anyone make that shot on the first round. Unless it was luck.

SPEAKER_05 2:44:53

Yes. The hit stuns Colby, who real is who stumbles around for a moment before finally re-engaging his senses enough to realize that Steele has started toward him, and he starts running. But he starts running toward the waterfall feature and falls over the falls. Steele jumps down the waterfall, fisticuffs begin between him and Colby, with Steele getting the better. But Eileen and golf club man are still in danger. You see them running as Rhodes fires at them several times, and one of those shots hits golf club man in the leg and he goes down. Eileen drops to the ground beside him. Rhodes comes running up toward them, gun drawn, and approaches to within a few yards of the two. He raises his gun, preparing to shoot, but Laura comes running up from behind him and whacks him over the head with the golf club. Rhodes drops his gun and then grabs his oh no, whacks his arm with the golf club. Rhodes drops his gun and grabs his arm in pain. Laura grabs the gun, then moves next to Eileen and golf club man. Rhodes tries to get up, but Steele arrives on the scene, hitting him in the middle of the back, which of course renders him unconscious.

The aftermath exposes Mildred's secret

SPEAKER_05 2:46:00

Case closed. Now for the tag. In a parking lot, Viennoff is seen behind the wheel of his car, which appears to be a 1955 Pontiac Star Chief. That one took me a little while to look up. Steele is leaning against the side of the car at the driver's door as Mildred looks on. Viennoff tells Steele that if there's anything you can do to make it up to him, just say so. Steele tells him that it's not he that Vinoff's in the doghouse with. Vienoff asks if Steele has any advice for him. Steele does. Put it and drive and pray you never cross your path again. Steele and Mildred walk away as Vinoff drives off. Mildred, bragging on herself, tells Steele that she didn't do a bad job on this one. And Steele agrees that she has a keen nose for fraud, which is always an asset. True. Mildred asks if that means he's proud of her. Wait. Mildred knows he's a fraud, a fake, and a phony, but she still wants plotits from him.

SPEAKER_01 2:47:01

Well, I think it's just because she knows that she's gonna get caught eventually with the Auburn situation and she wants to butter him up as much as possible. Okay, that could be.

SPEAKER_05 2:47:09

I hadn't thought about that. But yeah, you're you're probably right.

SPEAKER_02 2:47:13

Like, so you're proud of me. I did a good job. You you really want me to be employed with you, right?

SPEAKER_05 2:47:19

Steele acknowledges that if it hadn't been for her persistent shoveling of uh shoveling, shove shoveling of beethof from place to place, the phony FBI would have grabbed him and the poor old Fitzgeralds would have been dead ducks. Just then, Trenchcoat arrives driving a flatbed truck. Steele sees it and it's load and in shock pulls down his sunglasses, looking at it. Mildred's mouth drops open. On the back of the flatbed, we see various body parts and tires from the Auburn. Mildred gulps as Trenchcoat gets out and announces, found your car. Speaking of the biggest. Steele turns to Mildred and gives her an intense look. Mildred, giving Steele the fearful side eye, says, Speaking of dead ducks.

SPEAKER_03 2:48:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:48:04

Well,

The tag scene reignites the sleeping-together theory

SPEAKER_05 2:48:05

next it's night. Laura and Steele are once again on the floor of Steele's apartment.

SPEAKER_01 2:48:10

Because I mean his couch is apparently really uncomfortable.

unknown 2:48:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:48:14

It's a floor, so of course you sit on it.

SPEAKER_01 2:48:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:48:17

They've got a large stack of the latest issue of Bedside Babes between them and a fire burning in the fireplace behind them.

SPEAKER_01 2:48:23

I've got to imagine how awkward that would have been going from place to place to place and buying every copy of Bedside Babes because I mean, did they did they take it immediately to the car and put it in the car? Or did they go in with a stack of them and add it to the pile and the torque looking at them like, what is wrong with you?

unknown 2:48:42

You know?

SPEAKER_01 2:48:45

How many stores did they have to go to to get all of those copies? It was still the one that bought them? I gotta uh more fanfiction is needed.

SPEAKER_05 2:48:55

And the thing is, as big as the LA basin is, it would have taken them days to hit all the stores.

SPEAKER_02 2:49:04

No kidding.

SPEAKER_01 2:49:04

And how many how many stores didn't have it in, right?

SPEAKER_05 2:49:07

Like how many had sold before they got to them?

SPEAKER_01 2:49:11

Oh no, that too, right? And every time they the clerk says, I'm sorry, sir, we're sold out, Laura's face would get redder and redder.

SPEAKER_05 2:49:20

Well, Laura picks up a copy of the magazine and throws it into the fire. She turns to Steele, and as they continue throwing copies of the magazine into the fire, she says that she supposed he's wondering why she went to Vinoff in the first place. Steele admits that the thought had crossed his mind.

SPEAKER_01 2:49:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:49:35

Yeah, no kidding.

SPEAKER_01 2:49:37

Right? Like.

unknown 2:49:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:49:40

It all started innocently enough, she tells him. She needed a portrait for the alumni journal, and Steele interrupts with obviously condescending and un and disbelieving tones, says, Of course you did.

SPEAKER_01 2:49:53

And this is why she says she didn't want to tell him because he was going to behave like this, which you can understand because he behaves like a child a lot of the time.

SPEAKER_05 2:50:01

That's right. She didn't want to. That's exactly what she says. And she says, I needed a portrait. He took a portrait. I didn't know anything about his boudoir business until he came to her with a problem. And uh Steele gets a huge grin on his face and pretending to believe her story says the alumni journal, eh? Perfectly legitimate, Laura insists. Steele opens up a copy of the magazine, opens to the centerfold, and studying it says, Oh, the alumni are going to be delighted with this, aren't they? And Laura gives out with a laughing snort, grabs the magazine from Steele, and throws it into the fire. She then jumps Steele, knocking him, knocking him on his back, and then she's on top of him, kissing him as the wee freeze, never never having seen even the remotest hint of the photo that aroused so much interest.

SPEAKER_01 2:50:54

No, sadly, no, we have not. But um, this is a this this freeze, this tag scene is where a lot of the fan theories that they are in fact sleeping together come from. This is one of the pieces of evidence, so to speak, because the theory or the idea, prevailing idea is that she jumped on top of him, she's on top of him. I mean, yes, she could she could say, okay, uh, we're done now and leave, but be I mean, it looked pretty heated that rolling around on the floor there.

SPEAKER_05 2:51:29

So you know, it it it admittedly did, yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:51:32

And also they are too con like they're two adults. I don't under I get it. The TV, the whole ratings thing, we have to do the will, they won't, they and blah blah blah. But in a normal human relationship, unless there's some kind of either moral code that prevents sex before marriage or religious belief, most people, if they are in a committed relationship with another person at a certain point, and again, everyone has their own line and everyone has their own boundaries, but they it's been four years. It has been four years. And Laura has has not exactly demonstrated that she's as Steele put it, a shrinking violet.

SPEAKER_05 2:52:11

Acapulco, she lived with Wilson, like yeah, she's she's she would have no problem.

SPEAKER_01 2:52:17

Yeah, it's just it does I understand where it comes from because it it's sort of like they're asking people to suspend a lot of belief here that at four years in they haven't slept together. It it's a bit silly.

SPEAKER_05 2:52:32

Yeah, especially in TV land, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:52:35

Because like in season one, she she says like she doesn't want to become emotionally vulnerable and get into deep. That makes some sense. But by season two, they're clearly in a relationship. And it there are are are episodes where it's it's very obvious that that this is established. She's already emotionally vulnerable. That that's sleeping together's not going to change that, right? The can agreement hold held it off for a little while, but like, come on, are we really supposed to no? I don't I don't buy it, but uh at the same time, they're telling us it's canon, so we kind of have to buy it. It's it's one of those those things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:53:15

Anyway, unless you've got something else.

SPEAKER_01 2:53:18

Other than this, it's a really fun episode, and I I enjoy it. Yeah, it's despite the fact that you know, re-watching it, I'm like, ooh, this is not a great look for steel. But at the same time, I am laughing, so I'm not sure what that says about me. You know, like it's on the one hand, that's that's not how you want to react when your partner is violated, but on the other hand, it's really funny. I don't know, I don't know where that that what that says about myself as a human being, but here we are. So um, yeah.

Closing

SPEAKER_05 2:53:44

Okay,

Outro and listener top-five requests

SPEAKER_05 2:53:45

well, the website, steelwatching.com, you'll find the show notes, Amazon links to the movie Hide and Plane site.

SPEAKER_01 2:53:54

So you'll find the link to that, both Amazon Canada and Amazon USA, and links to other resources such as the Twitter and Facebook, as well as the Instagram page and the officially unofficial uh steel watching Facebook group, where we pick apart the episodes in even more detail. Uh and uh, you know, Eric loses bets and has to sing and all kinds of fun stuff happens over there. So never join us, join us, and uh our next episode is Grappling Steel. Yeah, also a fun one.

SPEAKER_05 2:54:32

So all right. Well, I guess that's it. So bye-bye, everybody.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:36

Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_05 2:54:37

Well, I'm not gonna say anything. It's it's all up to you. I refuse. I refuse to participate in this fiasco, this farce, this joke of an episode.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:48

He's cute when he doesn't have a choice.

SPEAKER_00 2:54:50

Steel Watchers. The moment you have been waiting for.

SPEAKER_05 2:54:54

No, you haven't. You know it. You haven't been.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:57

They have been, you haven't been, but they have been our top five Remington Steel episodes of all time, because Lord knows we're not doing a top five season five episode. That that just wouldn't work.

SPEAKER_05 2:55:10

So well, I mean, you could make it work, but it wouldn't work well.

SPEAKER_01 2:55:14

No, it would not work well. So for the entire series, send us your top fives. Doesn't matter the season, even if it's season five, we might question your sanity, but hey, we give you. Send them to us around the beginning of October-ish. That's kind of what we're shooting for in terms of when we record this and we are recording this. Sorry, Eric, it's happening. Um and hey, maybe even like your season. Add in your favorite season as well, just in general. Tell us what your favorite season was and why, and we will have some fun with that. Eric will get drunk and uh, you know, we will round off the entire the entire series in in uh in a fun way.

SPEAKER_05 2:56:00

So in my defense, when we did the season four top five, I was on pain medication, so that might have affected my ability to speak.

SPEAKER_02 2:56:07

Sure, sure. A likely story.

SPEAKER_05 2:56:12

Anyway, send it to my okay, which further enhanced my inability to speak.

SPEAKER_01 2:56:17

Send them to the email. Eric, would you like to tell them what the email is?

SPEAKER_05 2:56:21

Steelwatching at yahoo.com. And make some comments. If you just want to send your list, that's fine. But if you want to give us reasons why you chose these, uh both the episode and your top season, please do so. We will we will read as much of it as we can. Uh we I think we've proven that we don't um uh although I I have to admit I I missed a fan mail because it was buried. The notice for it was buried in my junk mail for Steel Watching. And you know, we get all these emails. You wouldn't believe some of the emails we get, but yes, send it into Steel Watching and label it top five of all time or something like that, so we we we can spot it. So there you go.

SPEAKER_01 2:57:06

Thank you. We look forward to it.

SPEAKER_05 2:57:08

Kicking and screaming.