Sarah: Welcome to Steele watching, which is a podcast for Remington Steele fans. My name is Sarah, and if you come over, you're gonna get snuggled like everybody else.

Eric: I am Eric, and words don't come easy to me. Well, at least not the ones my wife needs to hear anyway. Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah. I think that's in a lot of marriages.

Eric: Hey. It's a male thing. What can I say? Well

Sarah: and, I mean, we are going to be this is this is 1 of the episodes I think that a lot of people have been waiting for. So before we do that, is there

Eric: anything we have disappointed.

Sarah: Also a marriage thing. No. I'm kidding.

Eric: Yeah. Hey. Yeah. Wait a minute. Oh.

I I'm I'm sorry. I just had you know, America's wackiest home videos and such?

Sarah: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Eric: Just had something flashed through my mind from back in the, like, seventies where they had had these things on home video. Yeah. I remember this. America's greatest bloopers and such. And I remember seeing the commercials for for them, and some of them were absolutely hilarious.

But when you said that, 1 just flashed through my mind was a woman who's being interviewed by a TV show host, big name game show, and she's out there on her honeymoon in in Los Angeles. And he asks how she's enjoying it, and she says, I'm enjoying every inch of it.

Sarah: Oh, Freudian slipped there.

Eric: Yes. Anyway

Sarah: Anyhoo, is there anything that we need to talk about before we get into

Eric: the episode? Lots of stuff. Lots of stuff.

Sarah: I'm glad you remember because I don't.

Eric: First of all, we do need to mourn the loss of a subscriber. We are sorry to see them go. Hopefully, it wasn't anything that that we did. But

Sarah: And if it was something Eric did, email us and don't know.

Eric: Of course. It's always the man's fault.

Sarah: I think we might need to go to the

Eric: sensitivities, Bob. Sorry. But we, you know, we we understand how things change and and such. So we we have no animosity or sad feelings. I mean, sad feelings, but but understanding.

Sarah: We thank you for your contributions up to date.

Eric: Yes. I was I was going there. Can you just let me finish what I was saying?

Sarah: You always do this.

Eric: Anyway and then we had a couple of emails. Do did you say the emails were Oh. Did did you not? I think he didn't. I I have them here.

Sarah: I probably have them somewhere. I would have to look for them, though, so I'll rely on you.

Eric: Okay. First email is from a fan in Italy saying that she

Sarah: I remember these.

Eric: I joined the Steele Watchers group in on Facebook in November and found out about your podcast. I started watching Remington Steele back in the late eighties when I was in high school and never stopped. It first aired here in Italy in 1984, but I started watching it a few years later. Watching it has always made me feel happy. It is funny, lighthearted, but at the same time, it delivers strong messages.

I love Stephanie and Pierce's acting. They are fabulous. I love the romance, the wit, the jokes, the puns. Since I'm not a native speaker, some of them are clearer now thanks to your podcast. We appreciate that.

Mhmm. I think your podcast is fantastic. I am listening to the latest episodes and catching up with the old ones. Right now, I just finished My Fair Steal. A few days ago, I was driving and listening to Love Among the Steal.

And in the intro, you mentioned a message from another listener that through the podcast finally found a place to share the love for the show. So I decided to write you and thank you because through the podcast and the group, I found exactly the same, a place where I can listen to other people appreciating the show, laughing at the same things, asking themselves the same questions, questioning about some of the choices made by the authors, not to mention season 5. As you said, a human connection. You're doing a great job. Thank you.

And by the way, I bought a mug and T shirt. And I responded back to this person saying, so you're the 1.

Sarah: Yes. And I I found the emails. So, yes, thank you so much. And it's so cool to know that we have, like, people listening from not just North America, but from Europe. And, there I there I know that there are Steele watchers from various places all over the world, so it is really cool to see just more people from various places say they've seen the show and listened to the podcast.

So cool. Thank you.

Eric: Did you wanna read the next 1? Because I screwed up, and I forgot to, make note of the episode that it was being referred to.

Sarah: Oh, okay. Yeah. That that 1. Okay. Hold on.

I'll go back. Because I I had the the other there was 3 of them, so I had the other 1 open.

Eric: There were 3?

Sarah: 0, well Yeah. There was 1 from somebody from Alberta as well. So anyway, because I remembered because they were Canadian.

Eric: But I think we did that 1 last week.

Sarah: Did we?

Eric: Maybe we didn't. Okay. I'm I I oh, I did I forward that 1 to you? I and they must must have

Sarah: come Yeah.

Eric: Did I? Oh, oops. I didn't save it. I don't know. You're gonna have to do

Sarah: that 1. I've got it. I'll read that 1. Yes. I'll read that 1.

So this person wrote there it is. Hi there. As a new supporter of your podcast, I just wanted to say thank you for gifting us long time fans of the show. I wish I'd known about this podcast sooner. I've got a lot of catching up to do.

So they've started obviously further, like, behind in the podcast, but that's awesome because you've got lots to go. If you see that you're now in season 4, please tell me that you will continue beyond the season 5 episodes. I've listened to the very first episode of the podcast and really enjoyed it. Keep up the great work. And this person is I'm not gonna say their name, just in case they don't want us to, but it's from Alberta.

So yay. Another Canadian. That makes me happy. But, yeah. We are actually talking about, and and we posted in the Steele Watchers group.

So if you're not, part of the Steele Watchers group, join it because we we did make a post a few days ago about ideas that we're thinking about for season 5 or past season 5, what we could do with it, how we could keep it going. So if anyone if you have ideas, if you wanna submit ideas, feel free to comment there, and we'll put it on our little list of of all the ideas, but we're definitely working on that. So thank you so much. Yeah.

Eric: I'm gonna see see if I can find this other email because

Sarah: I've got it here as well if you want

Eric: me Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Why don't you? Because I like I said, I I forgot to put in the episode reference.

Sarah: I believe it was for the Steeleink.

Eric: Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah. So Go ahead and it because I've

Eric: got a whole lot more to say. Yeah. I'm gonna be hogging the the argument here and and

Sarah: Oh, go for it.

Eric: No. No. You go ahead and read this 1, and then we'll go to

Sarah: the other side. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. This person wrote, I have a beef with this particular organized. He's so organized with this particular r r r r s episode, I and doubt my question is more than a footnote in your podcast episode on it if you covered it at all. I am a San Diego almost native, not born, but raised. All I recognize to San Diego are the establishing shots as Laura and Steele arrive.

Were you able to do any research on the locations in this episode and determine whether any of it was actually shot here? As beautiful as an exterior as that post office is, the location is Los Angeles. The gate doesn't have to be San Diego, nor does the boat area that our duo pull into, although I suppose it could be. If none of it was filmed here, does that mean it was too expensive? I'd be interested in any information you have about the locations.

Thanks. So did you look into that?

Eric: I responded back saying that, far as I know, we did not do any research into that. I know I certainly didn't. And as far as why they wouldn't have done that being too expensive, my response was something along the lines of in fact, let me let me bring it up here, and I can just read it from reality here, what I said. Yes. I said, I don't think we made any serious attempts at researching locations.

I don't recall any mention of this in Judith's book for this episode, although I could be wrong. We we do know that they traveled to Europe for several episodes, so you would think that San Diego wouldn't be that big of a deal. But knowing the bureaucratic mind, it's entirely possible that the logic in sarcasm quotes went something along the lines of, we can justify the extreme expense of shooting in Europe because it's so far away. But even though shooting in San Diego wouldn't be all that expensive, we can't justify the comparatively low cost because we can just recreate what we need here on the lot, which is, yeah, about typical for

Sarah: So so I just checked because IMDb will sometimes have location details for films or television episodes, like where they've shot, what areas they've used, etcetera. I I check it a lot to see if something is filmed in Canada because I'll be watching something, and I'll be like, that looks like Vancouver. And I'll check, and sure enough, it usually is. But there is no information on IMDb whatsoever. It just says country of origin, United States.

So I couldn't even find anything there.

Eric: Yeah.

Sarah: But would know where

Eric: to to look.

Sarah: I would think that it was probably you're right, I mean, I assume that you're right because if you've lived there or like, I I was only there the once. Right? So if you've lived there or have been there enough to know that, for example, that post office was in Los Angeles, etcetera, it probably wasn't entirely filmed in San Diego. My guess would be they they maybe sent a second unit down to get establishing shots and then film the rest of it in in LA. As you said, it can be done in LA without unless they're going to a major landmark, it wouldn't really be necessary.

And it's probably, like, it probably was a cost thing would be my guess because I've noticed that season 4 compared to season 3, the budget has been scaled way back in the sense that, like, they're not in Europe every other week. They're not doing all these crazy jaunts off to the Mediterranean, etcetera. We had that the the bottle episode, which is usually usually done because they're trying to cut back costs. So my guess is that it's is it it would be easier to justify flying to Europe to film than it would be to go think it's, like, what, 3 or 4 hours just to do location shooting when you could do the same location shooting in LA and get away with it because to be fair, most of us aren't gonna notice the difference. Which I certainly didn't.

So that would be my guess. But yeah. I don't know. We have no idea. Yeah.

So if anybody does know, please let us know because Absolutely.

Eric: Yeah. Yes.

Sarah: That would be handy. So

Eric: And we had a a Facebook comment about the Korea lamp, and several other people provided comments as well.

Sarah: Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. I meant to comment on that too. Yes.

Thank you for remembering that.

Eric: Yeah. 1 specifically was it was prominently featured throughout the series, perhaps not so much because of the artist, but Stephanie Zimbliss' family connection. Her brother, Ephraim Skip Zimbliss the third, served as the chairman and CEO of Korea Art Glass Incorporated from July 1977 to July 1990.

Sarah: Which is really cool. I didn't know that. And so that's really And it's funny because

Eric: Very detailed connection there.

Sarah: Yeah. I did say in the episode that I hadn't noticed it prior to that, but then I somebody had also pointed out that it is mentioned in spawning. And I do comment on that when we get there because Laura does make a comment about it when the lamp is broken by Bang.

Eric: Right.

Sarah: So but it is neat to know that there's a connection.

Eric: Yeah. Didn't know. Prior to his first appearance in season 4 in spawning, I I don't recall ever having seen it before. I'm not gonna say it wasn't, but I don't recall

Sarah: seeing It was just probably 1 of those things that neither 1 of us were looking for, so we wouldn't necessarily have I mean, I'm sure I'll watch those sure I'll watch those episodes again, and I'm sure I'll be like, oh, yeah. There's the lamp.

Eric: So Yeah. Probably way in the background. That's cool. I have a couple of past episode comments. The first 1, I wish I'd have thought of this when we were doing coffee, tea, or Steele because it's kinda remotely connected.

You remember in that Ace Ketchum, a platinum air, was so proud of his automated baggage handling system.

Sarah: Yes.

Eric: And 1 of the reasons was because it makes the whole process more efficient and more cost effective. And there's also another little side benefit for that in theory. You take the human equation out of it. So you don't have things like what happened to a guy named Dave Carroll in 2008. Let me let me read first from his website and then some other things.

On 03/31/2008, Sons of Maxwell, which is the band that Dave Carroll is a member of, began our weeklong tour of Nebraska by flying United Airlines from Halifax to Omaha by way of Chicago. That first leg

Sarah: of the mistake. Flying United Airlines. Sorry.

Eric: On that first leg of his flight of the flight, we were seated at the rear of the aircraft. And upon landing and waiting to deplane in order to make our connection, a woman sitting behind me, not aware that we were musicians, cried out, my god. They're throwing guitars out there. Our bass player, Mike, looked out the window in time to see his bass being heaved without regard by the United baggage handlers. My $3,500.07 10 Taylor, which elsewhere he says he had to scrimp and save to be able to afford, had been thrown before his.

I immediately tried to communicate this to the flight attendant who cut me off saying, don't talk to me. Talk to the lead agent outside. I found the person she pointed to, and that lady was an acting lead agent but refused to talk to me and disappeared into the crowd saying, I'm not the lead agent. I spoke to a third employee at the gate. And when I told her the baggage handlers were throwing expensive instruments outside, she dismissed me saying, but, hon, that's why we make you sign the waiver.

I explained that I didn't sign a waiver and that no waiver would excuse what was happening outside. Now Carroll says that his fruitless negotiations with the airline lasted about 9 months, got nowhere, and then asking himself, if Michael Moore was a singer songwriter, what would he do? Carroll wrote a song and created a music video about his experience called United Breaks Guitars.

Sarah: Nice.

Eric: The YouTube video was posted on 07/06/2009 and amassed a 150,000 views in 1 day. Wow. The video had over half 1000000 views by July The following week, it hit number 1 on the iTunes Music Store. It hit 5,000,000 YouTube views by mid August, 10,000,000 by February 2011, and 15,000,000 by August 15 August 2015. Now, Bob Taylor, the owner of Taylor Guitars, released a video with a commentary shortly after the release of the initial video by Bob by Dave Carroll in which he stated, I have to say that if your guitar is broken and you've had it in a hard shell case, there was clearly some negligence and abuse that happened there because the case can protect the guitar from all kinds of damage.

Now within 4 weeks of the video being posted online, United Airlines' stock price reportedly fell 10% costing stockholders about a $180,000,000 in value.

Sarah: Oh, look. The consequences of my actions.

Eric: United belatedly made a compensation offer of $3,000 as a donation to the Thelonious Monk Institute of Jazz as a gesture of goodwill. But it kind of fell flat, especially after it was later revealed that the Thelonious Monk Institute of Jazz was, at the time, chaired largely by United Airlines executives, and United Airlines was exclusively used for its travel. But the story doesn't end there. In December 2009, Time Magazine named United Breaks Guitars number 7 on the list of top 10 viral videos of 2009. In January 2012, Dave Carroll and United Breaks Guitars was featured in the c n b CBC, CNBC documentary Customer Disservice.

Nice. In January 2013, the success of Carroll's online protest was used by German television and news service Tegge Ciao, whatever. Sorry. Can't I don't speak German. To exemplify a new kind of threat facing corporations in the Internet age.

In June 2013, NBC's Today Show discussed how to properly complain and get what you want and used Carol's video as an example of an excellent way to complain while remaining respectful and not yelling. On 04/09/2017, United Breaks Guitars trended on Twitter again. Nice. I mean, almost 10 years later. And this was following the release of a video that showed United Airlines physically forcing a passenger, doctor David Dow, off of flight 3 4 1 1 to make room for crew members who were needed at a different airport the following day, injuring him in the process.

Wow. Since the original incident, Carroll has been in great demand as a speaker on customer service. Ironically

Sarah: I guess so.

Eric: Yeah. United Airlines lost his luggage on 1 of his trips as a speaker.

Sarah: Oh, wow. I'm surprised he ever flew with them again because I wouldn't. I yeah.

Eric: Same same year. That's However

Sarah: that would be the end of my business for them.

Eric: Tom Paxson, a sing singer songwriter, had a similar experience with Republic Airlines, which he recounted in the song Thank You Republic Airlines on his 1985 album, 1,000,000 Lawyers and Other Disasters. And there are those who speculate that that song may have been in part an inspiration for Carroll to address his experience with his video.

Sarah: That's funny. I wonder if I can make a song about the, hotel that closed their hotel that we had booked it ourselves to stay at and didn't tell us until I tried calling them the day of, only to find that there was no more hotel. That was a fun fun attempt. Anyway just screw you over, they don't don't even, like, think they don't have to do anything about it. That that that makes my heart happy hearing that story.

But

Eric: I I wish I had remembered that because I knew about it, but I'd forgotten about at the time of of that episode because it it does seem to to kind of fit in nicely with the story of

Sarah: It does.

Eric: Platinum Air. Now the 1 other thing is Steele on the Air, we had gotten that comment about how when Laura wakes up to the alarm clock going

Sarah: Yes. Yeah.

Eric: She reaches over. And some people believe she was reaching for somebody, expecting to find somebody there, but nobody was.

Sarah: I think she just had a spicy dream.

Eric: I went back and looked at it. And to me, it just looks like she's, you know, woke up. She's stretching. She really doesn't wanna get up. She's just kinda flopping back onto her bed.

But interpretation.

Sarah: That's I will have spicy dream. She had a spicy dream. Yes. Well, discussed that. Spicy.

Eric: Yeah.

Sarah: We are people are like, we wanna hear about sensitive Steele. It's 20 minutes in. What are you doing?

Eric: We're we're we're we're building suspense.

Sarah: Yeah. Exactly. We're building to it. We are going to be talking about season 4 episode 16, sensitive Steele. Yay.

This episode first aired on 03/01/1986, and it was written by Rick Middleman and directed by Don Weiss or Weiss. I'm not sure how we say that last name. I I'm gonna preempt, preface this, I guess, not preempt. Preface this by saying that the I read the script, like, 2 hours before we were to record this. And, oh, boy.

Eric: It is different.

Sarah: It is so different, and I'm I'm glad they changed it. Very, very glad they changed it. I

Eric: A lot of the stuff is still there. It's just been rearranged.

Sarah: Well, the fight is totally different.

Eric: We'll get

Sarah: to that. But I think that what we

Eric: I think there was some stuff that should have been left in. But, yes, I I I where it goes doesn't go

Sarah: the same place as lot. So I'm I'm gonna bring that up as we go through it because there are a lot of, changes that I think were good changes. I'm wondering if because it I mean, Rick Middleman wrote the script, but I'm wondering if Michael Gleason punched it up, or if he just rewrote it himself because, obviously, there were some some pretty fundamental changes, I think, in the story. But so, yeah, I went with the TV Guide synopsis Okay. Which is a self improvement spa will lose its license if accidents, in air quotes, or in quotes, don't stop.

Pretty much on the nose. Yeah. So I'll talk a little bit as well about I'm gonna tell my cult story here. I told you this story before. I'll tell it in this episode, but and and we'll get into a little bit about what kind of place the Friedlick sensitivity spa is because there is actually a name for these types of places, And they're usually falling on that sort of culty spectrum as well in terms of what they do and how they kind of, like, break people's psyches down and and don't always, you know, fix them back up in the way that's helpful, especially when you have a guru, which this spa seems to have or had.

So the opening scene, we open at the Friedlick Sensitivity Spa. We see a car coming up the driveway of a large compound, and inside a seminar is taking place. And I I love I do I do like some of the descriptions in the script, so I'm gonna go back to the script here.

Eric: Have you noticed how all these places that are supposedly just about helping people, we're not in it for the money, are always lavish, high dollar places?

Sarah: It's funny how that happens, isn't it? So, yeah, we've got it says it it describes the Friedlick Sensitivity Spa in the script as the nationally renowned awareness center catering to America's uptight, which I I thought was funny. And then the, description of the inside of the spa says, an enthralled group of some 8 casually dressed couples of all sizes, shapes, and ages are scattered informally on the floor around the room's rustic fireplace, in front of which, the dynamic young Turk, which I'm guessing may altered that because I don't think the actor who played Neil Brimsley was Turkish, but I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. Holds court, bearded and intense, and yeah.

They definitely switched that. Yeah. Brimsley's bubbling charm and wit barely masks the fact that he is a political animal given to violent surges of professional jealousy. Note. In every room, we will see prominently displayed a framed photograph of spa guru Karl Friedlick, a benign Freudian bearded patriarch type.

So, yeah, I I like that.

Eric: But it's not culty at all.

Sarah: Not at all. And that's, like, what I where I'll I'll get there when we when we get there. But, yeah, definitely, we get this inside of this room, and he's introducing himself as, Carl Brimsley. He says some might know him from TV as the snuggle man.

Eric: Can I? Can I? Can I? Can I? Can

Sarah: Can Can I?

Eric: Doctor Snuggles is a 1979 animated children's television series that follows the adventures of Doctor Snuggles, a kind old gentleman who lives in a comfortable home with his elderly housekeeper. He spends most of his time inventing. His adventures are supported by a variety of supporting characters, including anthropomorphic animals and objects. And I'm wondering if we didn't steal the name and the idea from that.

Sarah: You know, children's shows as adults sometimes come off as real creepy when you think about, like, concepts of them. Right? Because, like, when I hear mister Snuggles, my mind immediately flashes to a beloved children's television show, Canadian children's television show called mister Dress Up, which if anybody's ever seen it, don't I'm not knocking on mister Dress Up. I love mister Dress Up. When I tried to explain Mr.

Dress Up to my husband who is from Scotland, I got this look of horror, like, from him because he's, like, a former understudy of Mr. Rogers. It ran on CBC from 1967 to 1996. It was like an iconic presence in Canadian media. Right?

Eric: Okay.

Sarah: And it featured Mr. Dress Up by actor Ernie Coombs was Mr. Dress Up. It aired every weekday morning, and he would lead children through, like, songs, stories, imagination games with help of his puppet friends, a child named Casey and a dog named Finnegan. Now, if you look at the puppet, I never saw the puppet as being creepy.

But as an adult, I look at the puppet. I'm like, that thing is haunted. 1,000 haunted. Okay? And they would play in a tree house, and then they would go back inside, and he would, play dress up and do imagination games, and he would pull the costumes out of his tickle trunk, which is where he stored his things.

Eric: Okay.

Sarah: Yeah. See, that same look that you have right there is the look that my husband had. I'm like, it's not creepy. Don't make it weird. And he's like, you're making it weird by describing it.

And I'm like, you know what? You can shush. Mister Dress Up was a lovely human, and nothing ever has bad has ever been said that I've heard about mister Dress So when as an adult, you look back on some of these shows, and you're like, oh, okay.

Eric: Maybe there was Yeah. More more being suggested there than we thought.

Sarah: But yeah. No. Mister Dress Up was wholesome and wonderful, and he is not the children's television figure that I'm going to mention later in my cult story.

Eric: Okay.

Sarah: Anyway But, yeah. So he's doctor Snuggles, apparently. He goes over and shows them the picture of Friedlick. Sorry. I said Carl Brimsley.

I meant to say Neil Brimsley. Carl Friedlick is the spa guru, but he's he shows on the picture and tells them, welcome to the sensitivity spa where they put the capital y back in the word you.

Eric: What does that even mean? I mean, to quote to quote the Allen Parsons song, it's all psychobabble rap.

Sarah: Yeah. It's it's word salad. It is 1000% word salad. It's like, it sounds good, but it has no, like yeah. It's it's pointless.

But they all clap and applaud because they're, like, loving this.

Eric: Oh, yes.

Sarah: And we then switched to another area of the spa, and we've got it describes Ursula in the script as a beautiful, statuesque Swedish staff member, best described as a cross between Ingrid Bergman and Ursula Andress. She kneels beside a towel draped male guest who lies prone on the matted floor while his towel draped wife stands aside looking on, and not very, friendly, by the way. His towel draped wife, not happy.

Eric: Well, I was gonna make this comment later, but I guess I can make it here now because I was going to make it specifically in relation to the book title Snuggle Up to Reality. Yeah. And it it seems like that book, this this Swedish massage blonde thingy I mean, all this is just basically, let me cop a cheap feeling in the name of therapy.

Sarah: That that would actually lead really nicely into my cult story, but I'm gonna save it, because you're not wrong. A lot of these organizations are cloaking very, very abusive practices in pseudo technical psychobabble. And that's what this 1 is doing very clearly. Because, like, these these couples are all on the ground. She's using this this man's obviously who she's demonstrating her massage technique on, so that's why the wife is sitting beside.

But she is, you know, surrounded by all these couples and towels. All their women are massaging their male partners. I'm hoping they switch. I'm hoping there is a switch, and it's not just like, you know, that would be

Eric: What what do you mean you're hoping this

Sarah: I'm hoping at some point, the women receive massages from their male partners as well. Like, that's not just I

Eric: I thought you had some other switch in mind.

Sarah: No. God. No. No. I don't mean like that.

I just mean that, you know, I'm hoping that there's Well, you a don't need to switch over. Now, give your wife a massage, because we deserve it too. I'm just saying. But she's speaking slowly and saying things like, soft, gentle, close your eyes, feel the core of your being, all this psychobabble crap passing through your fingertips to your soulmates' pressure points. Right?

And his wife like I said, the guy's wife's sitting beside her just looking, like, staring daggers, looking anything but relaxed.

Eric: She is not happy. No.

Sarah: No. No. She continues to tell them to free their minds of life's superficial tensions, and all the men groan in relaxation, which, of course, the wife does not because she's she's like, get your hands off him. Get your hands off him.

Eric: Yeah. She knows she knows what the plan is there by by miss Swedish massage. Yes.

Sarah: Touching and feeling. So yeah. We then switch over to Maxine, who is my favorite person in this whole episode. Yeah. She's described as someone with a thin nervous smile, a tense neurotically attractive woman cut from the Sandy Dennis mold.

So, that's that's Maxine. And she paces manically inside a small conference room. She tells them the primal shriek is the cornerstone to the Friedrich approach of creating a tensionless tensionless state of being. She pauses and then says, again, and they all scream. And okay.

Here's the thing. I used to think this was silly, but now I would be totally down for a good rage scream. Like, 1000%, this is actually a legitimate thing now. People are doing this. Did you know about this?

Eric: Well, I I know it was a fad.

Sarah: No. No. Like, people are, like, organizing gatherings to scream into the void. Like, this is a so I've got a couple articles.

Eric: I mean 1 was It just it just seems kind of

Sarah: okay. Okay. Article from 05/07/2025. Okay. So this is not that long ago.

It says hundreds let it all out at scream event in Toronto. Grace Turner stood at the top of grassy park slope with a megaphone in her hand. The turnout is insane, she said. Hundreds were gathered at Trinity Bellwoods Park in Toronto's West End, and it was almost time for the moment they were all eagerly waiting for. The moment where they the world they would get to scream their lungs out.

The scene resembled an outdoor concert, but Turner, an artist behind the solo music project City Builders, wasn't there to sing. She was the ringleader for a very different sort of performance. We're all going through personal struggles right now. She told the crowd, they showed up after RSVP ing to a free group scream event online, a way to come together and let out all the heartbreak, anger, and frustration. So, yeah, hundreds of people showed up for this

Eric: group scream in China. Guess, in some ways, I I it's I guess this is kinda related to something I heard about a dozen years ago or so where in Japan, they have these rooms that you can go in and they're basically just set up so you can go in and throw a temper tantrum. You can destroy anything that's in there and

Sarah: just The break. Yeah. The the rooms where you can just go in and break stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's funny because I read about that, and I read that it's primarily women who go there. I'm like, you know what? That tracks, actually.

Eric: I you know? And if I just said that, I would have been just crucified. Yeah.

Sarah: No. No. It's it's but and then there's another article that I found from 2020 from The Guardian who basically said that scream groups were forming across the world where women would gather in parks and public spaces just to scream. So exhausted and overwhelmed, Gretchen Miller felt the frustration of the past 3 years rise up with her on a whim. The 54 year old from Sydney posted a message to her local community Facebook.

Does anyone feel like screaming? The responses poured in. I wanna scream because of climate change, economic inequality. 1 wrote, I wanna scream because of real estate agents and landlords. Someone another said my fiance decided he didn't love me anymore.

Whatever it is, apparently, every Wednesday evening, these women meet to just to scream. They take out there just to scream into the void, and this, like,

Eric: started going around the world. I think there's better ways to deal with with issues than that, but okay. Well, I know.

Sarah: Anyway It's I doubt it's the only way, but that that they're dealing with it. But, honestly, you have a nice, like, scream, and it helps. It's cathartic. It's cathartic to just, like you know? Again, this is 1 of those things where this spa is using some legitimate techniques coded in, you know, silly psycho babble and all frothy books as they call it and whatever else.

And that's usually what these types of culty what we call they're they're called LGATS, which stands for large group awareness training. And they usually, again, have some some things that are useful, but they mix it in with other stuff that's not and in some cases, very abusive. But I am 100% on board with Maxine and the screaming because, you know, and apparently, I'm not the only 1 because, like I said, these groups are popping up all over the world. And it's a lot of women just meeting up to scream. So, yeah.

Same. Same, Maxine. I'm there. I'm I'm with you on that. She tells them to take a deep breath, take the time to get in touch with her primal emotions.

She closes her eyes, and suddenly, there's loud screaming throughout everybody in the room. She opens her eyes and tell oh, sorry. 1 loud scream. This is the 1 woman. Tells the woman who is screaming Melanie.

She says, very good. She screams again, and she says outstanding. She screams again, and she's like, okay. It maybe it's time to stop now. She's trying to get her attention, but then she sees her pointing out the window and Maxine looks at the direction she's pointing.

And when she does, she sees a man in a bathrobe flopped over a hot tub with a very large heater on top of him. So

Eric: Now somewhere, I think it was IMDb, but I forgot to make note of the information. It says that this was the last credited appearance by Lynn Randall. She appears as the screaming woman at the beginning of sensitive Steele but was not credited. So I'm a little confused on that

Sarah: like Lynn Randall.

Eric: Yeah. It is. Is it? Yeah. But I'm confused

Sarah: I missed that.

Eric: By the the it's her last credited appearance, but she was uncredited. That seems a little bit

Sarah: Confusing?

Eric: Confusing. Yes. Yeah. So

Sarah: And morphing a little.

Eric: Yeah. But, yes, that is that is Lynn Randall.

Sarah: I I guess I wasn't really I was more focused on the screaming. We we switch over to The Office, and this is the first major change. And I'm this is the I'm glad they took this out because it switches over to Laura. It A lot of these changes I think my issue with the original script is that it yanked them backwards in a way that was really reductive to how far they've come in the relationship, and it felt very shoehorned in. The argument that they do end up having in the, in the aired episode feels a little bit more organic to some of the arguments that they've had all the way through.

It doesn't feel like it came out of nowhere. The writing of the script the way it was before it was changed, feels like they're just trying to invent a problem when they already have a lot that are unresolved, if that makes sense. Because we we get this is what it says in the original script. Tight on Remington and Laura in an embrace. Laura, a manila folder clutched in her hand is momentarily rendered helpless and pulls away flustered.

She says, really, Mr. Steele, it's 11:30 in the morning. He checks his watch and says 11:33. And she says, what about the Chapman presentation? He says, Laura, please spare me all the all play, no work litany.

It's beginning to wear. And then she says, but this is unprofessional. He says, absolutely. And she says, you know what your problem is? And he says, nothing a brisk run around the block wouldn't care, which okay.

That's funny. And then she says, here, you feel compelled to dominate me physically because deep down you're intimidated by any woman with half a brain in her especially 1 with whom you owe your entire identity. That's like

Eric: It's it's really out of seemingly out of context, out of

Sarah: out of nowhere. In season 4. This is something I could see her saying in season 1. It's not something I could see her saying in season 4. Like, it just and I realized she does say some of that later on in the argument, but it feels a little more, like, at home in that part of the argument.

Eric: But it also feels out of context in this presentation because it's just all of a sudden, we start into the episode, and and she's ripping him a new 1. It's just like And

Sarah: it makes it makes note like, she's kissing him, and then she's like, well, it's unfor like, I'm sorry. You sat on your desk and, like, kissed him in the office. This is not new. Mhmm. Yes.

And then and then pulling out the you owe me your identity, it just I don't like it. I do not love it. I'm glad it's gone. He says, been reading your college psychology text again, and she says, got you, didn't I? And then he says, you know what your problem is?

You're so bloody inhibited. God forbid, you should lose control and let your honest emotions come through. And she says, that's ridiculous. He says, prove it. Alright.

I will. She plants an angry kiss on him, and then she says there. How's that for all work and no play? And then that's when Mildred comes in to tell them about the Steinmetz's, which I don't I'm glad that argument's gone because it it just

Eric: Yeah.

Sarah: It doesn't it doesn't do anything for either of them. It makes him look like a jerk who's pressuring her, and it makes her look like she's pulling out random things to accuse him of. And it just feels like they were like, okay. We gotta make him fight. Okay.

You know? Yeah.

Eric: And it's the stereotypical, I'm going to beat you over the head with something that happened, you know, x number of years ago.

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: And, yeah, it's it's I I never forget. I'm like an elephant. I never forget. I never yeah.

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. So I I I I do like this. I actually like the fact that the way they started the episode has them looking like they've kind of looked for the bulk of the season where NSYNC very together, like, very sort of, like, partners. They're wearing similar like, again, they're dressed to match.

She's in that really nice pink. I don't love the shoulder pads, but I like her in pink, that pink striped blouse that she's worn before. I

Eric: you know, I have exactly the same thing written down. Not a big fan of the color pink, but love the top. Nice shape

Sarah: too. Like, it looks good on her. He's wearing a pink tie, which also looks good on her him. Like, they they're matching. They look very intimate and together.

And I I think that works.

Eric: And it sets the rest of the episode up much better than the original 1.

Sarah: So too. Because if you start them off fighting, it's it's kind of like, okay.

Eric: To go. No.

Sarah: There isn't. And it this way, it starts off where we've seen them growing closer and closer and closer, but they're still not really getting to, as Doctor. Hunter or Arthur Henderson puts it, nitty gritty. They've they've kind of like tiptoed around this big, big thing that they're always coming back to. So unearthing it feels a little more organic when it it's it's not referred to at the beginning.

They're not fighting about it. They're not whatever. So, yeah, I I like it better that they seem more together. And so they're in their office looking at a self help book titled You Can Be Better Than Okay.

Eric: That cover is terrible. I mean, I realize it's a fake book, but, I mean, come on. Couldn't you do better than that? Make something that looks real. Bones, you know, she's supposedly this author of of these mysteries.

Those covers look great. Yeah.

Sarah: Oh, yeah.

Eric: The same thing. Put a little put a little effort into it. Prop people, I'm sorry to I I don't mean to criticize, but, I mean, you got it coming.

Sarah: Yeah. Well, not only does the cover look terrible, but I'm sorry. The title? Yeah. Could be better than okay?

Talk about laying like, aiming for the lowest bar.

Eric: Now now now in all fairness, that is exactly the kind of title that you see Oh, for sure. Or at least back at this time that you saw on these types of books.

Sarah: Yes. Yes. No. 100%. I'm just like, okay.

I don't wanna be better than okay. I wanna be good. Like, how about you could be better than good? That would be, like, what I would think. I don't

Eric: Well, if you're better than good, you're you're better than okay. I mean, that's that's like the places that they advertise. Yeah. We're having a sale. Everything is discounted with discounts up to 99%.

You get in there, 1 thing was 99% off. Everything else is 1% off. Yeah. They didn't lie.

Sarah: Price is starting at this. Yeah. Steele is dubiously holding the book. He kind of, like, repeats the title out loud, and Mildred fills in the information that the couple in front of them, it's their latest bestseller. 12 weeks at the top, still going strong.

We see the man whose name has been changed in the script from John to Gerald, who has a little bandage on the back of his neck. And he's described in the script I like the script descriptions. They're very funny. Mildred shows in a visibly stressed John and Sonia Steinmetz. We know that Gerald is John.

Eric: Mhmm. Mhmm.

Sarah: Sonia is an attractive intellectual type whose professional reserve is tempered by her soft voice and gentle affection for John, whom she married after the death of his of her first husband, Carl Friedrich. A devoted disciple of the late, great Carl Friedrich, John Steinmetz is a rotund pipe smoking teddy bear of a man who at the moment sports a small bandage at the top of his head. So, obviously, they changed that a bit too because the actor playing Gerald is not very rotund. No. But he does have the bandage.

So we've got that. So he's obviously the 1 who was in the bathrobe. Laura, and I like the fact that they're recycling outfits too. It's nice to see outfits come back because so many shows, you've got the characters in a new item of clothing every week, and it's like, well, I don't know about you, but my closet doesn't just manufacture, like, magically manufacture new outfits every day. So it's good to see, like, new clothes pop or the same clothes pop up.

Eric: Yeah. Well, you know, and and in reality, I I maybe I'm speaking out of turn when it comes to women. But most people have, you know, like, 5 shirts, 5 pair of pants, maybe 5 skirts for women. They they don't have a whole lot of variety. And it's just yeah.

You just you just keep recycling it every week. That's why you have to do laundry every week because you ran out of clothes.

Sarah: Yeah. You don't. Well, I think it's I think that's true of everybody, men and women. Like, I don't think we have so many clothes that we can go an entire laundry cycle and not, like, have to do like, we eventually have to wash our stuff because

Eric: we Although there are some women who, you know, if if if you got a 20,000 square foot house, okay. That's my closet. Where are you living?

Sarah: Yeah. Okay. Fair. But, I mean, I don't have that kind of money, so that's definitely not me. Yeah.

Gerald says it's nice to have an appreciative audience with respect to Mildred. And Mildred says, are you kidding? I've been a fan of you too since winning through divorce. I'm guessing that's a reference to her, failed marriage and Yeah. Her ex husband.

So I I always love hearing these mentions of Mildred's ex, and I wish we knew more about him because he seems like a character.

Eric: Real winner. Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah. But it's interesting to see that a married couple wrote about winning through divorce when they haven't

Eric: Been divorced.

Sarah: Yeah. Although we we know at the end that their marriage is not as good as it looks. So Yeah.

Eric: That's that is true.

Sarah: Yeah. Who knows? So Mildred comments that you look a little shorter than you did on Merv last week, which is a reference to the Merv Griffin show Mhmm. Which was a talk show starring Merv Griffin. The series ran on 2 different networks on NBC from 1962 to '63 and CBS from '69 to '72, but is most known for its run on first run syndication from 1965 to '69 and '72 to '86.

So that's interesting because that would have been the year it was canceled that she was saying that. So I never saw it, but I'm guessing it was kind of like Oprah

Eric: ish. Maybe a little more John Johnny Carson ish.

Sarah: Okay. Okay. Gotcha. But either way, like, they bring on guests, and they interview them. And yeah.

Yeah. So Laura Laura sees her about to start fangirling, and she kinda takes her by the shoulders and, thanks, Mildred, tells her to go make some coffee. Mildred says, well, we're all out. Laura Laura pointedly says, buy some. Shows her out the door.

Ouch. Yeah. Sonya tells him that Gerald has something terribly important that he wants to share, and it's interesting to watch this.

Eric: The word share.

Sarah: Okay. Sharing is caring, Eric.

Eric: No. You have something to say. You don't share. You share crayons. You don't share information.

Sarah: Okay. That's an interesting grudge to hold, and maybe you should talk about that with, with somebody or snuggle it out or just really get down to the nitty gritty. Maybe you need a good rage scream.

Eric: And and I and I'm I'm sorry, but that that phrase sharing is caring, think that has a different connotation than what you might have thought of.

Sarah: Alright. We're just gonna walk away from that.

Eric: Particularly in light of the sensitivity spot and some of the things that go on there. Yeah.

Sarah: Okay. Well, yeah. That's true. Well, actually, what I was thinking of, though, when when we watch this, knowing that Sonya is responsible for the accidents Mhmm. It's very interesting to see the way that she manipulates everybody with the information that they are giving to Steele and Laura as well as, like, how she phrases things.

Because she doesn't say we have something that's important that we wanna tell you. She says Gerald has something terribly important. So it's obvious in that line that that that going to the to the Remington Steele Investigations Office was not her idea. No. But she's also saying it in a way that sounds like she's being very supportive.

Mhmm. So it's it's very interesting the way that she kind of, like, phrases things because she says, you know, he has something terribly important. So it does sound like she cares, but Gerald tells him that several days ago, he was the victim of a freak accident on his way to the hot tub. Steele interrupts, not sure what they mean by the spa, and Sonya tells them the Friedlick Sensitivity Spa in Malibu. Laura nods knowingly, and Gerald adds that it was founded by Sonya's first husband, the great Carl Friedliich, his mentor.

He says that since Carl's death, they've been continuing his work with his Encounters workshop. Laura encourages them to tell him about the accident. Gerald says that an outdoor heater somehow toppled over and knocked him unconscious. Sonia says it's awful. He might have drowned.

Gerald says, naturally, he tried to rationalize yeah. Might have. Damn it. Gerald says that, naturally, he tried to rationalize it as just a random accident. Steele fills in the butt, and Gerald says this is just the latest in a series of random accidents.

And then, again, Sonya's phrasing here because she says Gerald thinks the accidents may be connected.

Eric: Well, actually, what is said is Gerald feels that somehow all these accidents are connected, and I hate the word feels.

Sarah: You need to go to the sensitivity spot. No. No. No. No.

No. You

Eric: think the accidents are connected. You don't feel it. You don't feel that there's a stop sign at the next intersection. You think there is. You don't feel like you take a right turn at the next road.

You think it stop using the word feel for factual things, people.

Sarah: I feel like you're getting upset, and I feel like Don't start with me. Don't start. I think we should all pause and have a snuggle.

Eric: Anyway Now maybe I'll scream.

Sarah: See? We're working through it. But okay. You're right. She does she says feels, but she's still, like, saying Gerald is the 1 that wants to bring this to you.

Not me. Right? Gerald described some of the accidents starting with an outbreak of food poisoning, fire in the janitor's closet, and a short circuit in a light socket that shocked 1 of their guests so badly they had to call paramedics. Steele asks if the local authorities investigated, and Gerald says yes, but not as industriously as the state licensing board. He hands them an envelope saying this arrived for them this morning.

He explains the letter notifies them the spa is on probation pending a full investigation. And I have to wonder, if you are the state licensing board and you are concerned that this place might not be safe, wouldn't a probation mean you'd have to pause your encounter workshops?

Eric: I would have thought so. Well, of course, then there's there's the question of, would they do a probation like that, or would they just temper suspend

Sarah: the license? Suspend the license, I would think. But

Eric: No. They may I guess they could have used the word probation. But still, yeah, you're right. They would they would basically have to stop operating temp at least temporarily.

Sarah: Yeah. You would think.

Eric: Yeah. Until

Sarah: yeah. So Sonya adds how they found out about it. She doesn't know. Okay. Laura asked if they know of Laura asked if they know if anyone It just happened.

Eric: Yeah. We don't know.

Sarah: Who would call them? If they know of anyone who would wish them harm, and Gerald says not a 1, but they can appreciate the fact that if Steele doesn't or sorry, if the state doesn't renew their license, they're out of business. Steele asked if they will excuse them for a moment and ushers Laura into the other, utility office. Once inside, even though the door is open, he says, it's in the bag. She's like, what are you talking about?

He references the Golden Dugout Caper. Series of accidents perpetrated by 1 guest out to kill another within the confines of resort dedicated to the overprivileged. They can hear them, because Sonya interrupts, and she says, oh, no. Sorry. She can't hear they didn't hear them there, but she interrupts and says, well, we don't mean to intrude, but we're on a rather tight schedule.

Laura tells him that mister Steele was just pointing out a similarity to 1 of his previous cases. Steele smugly says that it was successfully concluded when the initial or when the culprit turned out to be 1 guest out to kill another through a subterfuge of seriously serious a series, sorry, of random mishaps. Gerald declares it impossible, and Sonya adds that the accidents took place weeks apart with a different encounter group in residence every time. Steele starts to say, well, these intrinsic similarities, but Laura interrupts asking about the staff. She suggests that maybe 1 of them has an axe to grind.

Gerald says, impossible. I love it when this happens. Okay. They get these clients that show up, and they're like, someone's trying to kill me. And then they're like, do you know of anybody who'd wanna hurt you?

No. What about this person? No. What about this person? No.

Not them. And it's like, but, okay. Someone's trying to kill you. And like, it it's like, what's his face? Crunch Kramer with, like, the wife that threatened to murder him.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Was that important? Yeah. Right.

Oh.

Eric: So, yeah, they're

Sarah: they keep suggesting options of, no. No. No. Impossible. We're like a family, and Steele interrupts saying, if his Italian history serves, so were the Borgias.

So Yeah. Yeah. That's good. That's a good, that's a good point. Yes.

Eric: Absolutely.

Sarah: Yeah. And I feel like we've talked about the Borgias earlier in the podcast. I don't think we need to

Eric: feel

Sarah: go and delve into that again.

Eric: You feel like we have?

Sarah: I feel like it. I'm doing that on purpose. I'm glad you noticed. Anyway, he asked if they'll

Eric: take the long case. Episode, people.

Sarah: Still begins to equivocate, but Laura says, assuming they can move about the spa freely without compromising their investigation, Gerald says that shouldn't be a problem. So we switch. And I wanna go back to the script for a second because the description of some of the couples in this initial meeting this by the snuggle man is quite funny. We've got 2 rings of commingled staff and guests, excluding Maxine happily shouting back at Brimsley who exhorts them on from raise a raise stage area. Each wears a big name tag.

The staff members name tags permanently indicate the word staff. I'm just gonna skip and just describe the guests. The 2 circles of staff and guests start counter rotating so that everybody eventually has a chance to greet and hug everyone else. And we've got Doctor. William Spriggs, a well groomed somewhat preoccupied physician who tries to get with it.

And we've got, let's see, Dolores, who is a described as a subdued sparrow of a wife who smiles the smile of a woman without an identity. Oof. Then Arthur Henderson, suave, urbane, silver haired staff member. We've got Judy Fulton, an ex manicurist who still shows her rough edges despite her recent entry into the ranks of the nouveau Riche. And, I think we've got 1 more.

If I go down here, to Nancy Hughes and her mate, they are the perfect upwardly mobile and seen a couple whose materialistic fad prone marriage was made in yuppie heaven. I think that's my favorite 1. Yeah. So, yeah. That's that's who we've got.

But inside the snuggle seminar, we see Steele and Laura standing there amongst their encounter group. They're dressed alike again here because we see they both kind of have, like, a more, like, I don't wanna say woodsy, but they're, like, in dressed down clothing, I guess. Yeah.

Eric: And they're both wearing blue.

Sarah: Yep. And they don't look happy. They feel deeply uncomfortable. At the front of the room, Neil Brimsley is asking, what's the name of his book? And they all snuggle up to reality, and he tells them, what are you waiting for?

Let's snuggle. Everyone in the room starts turning and hugging random strangers, and here is where my cult story comes in handy as well as the description of what this group, this type of group is and and Mhmm. What it does. So large group awareness training. It refers to activities usually offered by groups with links to what we call the human potential movement.

These move, groups claim to increase self awareness to bring about the desirable transformation in an individual's personal lives. LGATs are unconventional. They often take place over several days and may compromise participants' mental well-being, and that's literally in the Wikipedia. LGAT programs may involve several people at a time, though early definitions cited LGATs as featuring unusually large durations. Most recent texts describe trainings lasting from a few hours to a few days.

So these are like there are tons of different groups. So groups like Landmark is 1 of them. Landmark seminars or ear or air hard seminars. These are all now sort of well known as cults. And 1 that's become very famous, NXIVM.

Have you heard of NXIVM? Do you know what I mean when I say NXIVM?

Eric: I thought that was a, what, a hair product or something.

Sarah: No. No. No. No. Nexium was a a big LGAT that turned into a very famous cult that ended up with a whistleblower, Canadian woman named Sarah Edmundson, who was part of the cult for 12 years, blowing the whistle on some of the more sensational, activities that were taking place within the cult, namely branding women and turning them into sex slaves for the guru, Keith Raniri, the leader of the cult.

And, he ended up going to prison for 120 years, so he's never getting out. But some of the more well known members of this cult were actors and actresses that were fairly well known at the time, like Alison Mack, who was on Smallville, the TV series Smallville. She was, Clark's best friend on the show for, like, 12 years. 1 of the actresses from the new Battlestar Galactica, was was 1 of the members. Like, they're actually a few famous actors and actresses, attended this cult, and some got very, very into it.

So I'll I'll get into them a little bit later, but they would be also an LGAT because, like, the whole purpose of it was to, you know, personal growth, self improvement, right? You go to these seminars and whatnot, and they end up, but they're done in a way that is intended to break down your psyche. So, this was developed something in the early seventies contains many forums today in seminars. Like I said, the Landmark Forum. They're typically long emotionally draining days, lots of inner work.

And I say this in quotes, that has you confront deep patterns and habits. They promise transformation. Tony Robbins, another example of this, but these trainings

Eric: aren't be Oh, 100%. Group?

Sarah: 1000%. In fact

Eric: You know, the interesting thing about that is it's based on a science fiction novel.

Sarah: Yeah. Elrod Hubbard. Oh, yeah. The guy was in Nutbar.

Eric: Yeah. It's it it was just something he created for based on 1 of his books. And it's just like, okay. You've taken this, you know, fandom thing a little too far.

Sarah: Well, this is this is what they do. Right? And then, actually, Keith Ranieri modeled a lot of what NXIVM did off of Scientology. They had levels that you could get to, but instead of it being, like I think in Scientology, it's, like, ascension levels. In in NXIVM, it was colored sashes.

So you'd start out with a white colored sash, and then you'd get, you know, to the next level. And they they referred to Keith Ranieri as the vanguard, I think was the term that was used for him and and Nancy Salzman, who was the reputable psychiatrist that they had, that was like his co leader. She was called prefect. And so they had these names, and they had these sashes and these color levels that you could get to. And, of course, you had to do that by spending ungodly amounts of money.

So that was another part

Eric: of it. In it for the money.

Sarah: No. But the L gap model is fundamentally flawed because at the heart of them, these trainings is the idea of this transformation. Right? This thing that we can do. But, like, they as I said, they take them through these long, emotionally intense days, but they use peer pressure and group dynamics to make people more open to behavior change and assimilation.

And then after exhausting them, like, they don't let them sleep. They they sleep use sleep deprivation. They they, separate you if you come in with, a family member or a friend. They often separate you from that family member or friend, put you in different groups because they don't want you conferring or talking about how weird it is. Right?

They do a lot of love bombing. They do a lot of, like, euphoric sort of, like, oh, we're all here for you, and that idea of, like, oh, everybody's here to help me. Right? Mhmm. And then they sort of, like, get you to a point where you tell them you're deepest yeah.

Your deepest, darkest traumas, and then they use those traumas to kind of crack you open and and build, like, break you down, essentially. And that's the bait and switch. Right? So signing up for this training will, you know, change your life, and then the switch is, oh, well, the workshop was just the beginning. You need to sign up for this this this and this.

And then, of course, you continue to do it, and you continue to spend money, and the intensity gets larger. The demand for your behavior gets larger. Scientology has a process called auditing where they basically, like, take bring you into a room, and you're supposed to confess all the things you've ever done wrong to the auditor who then basically tells you what your punishment has to be, and that's supposed to clear your your soul or whatever. Right? It's basically their way of keeping an eye on you.

Like, if you're having negative thoughts, you're a suppressive person, and you're kicked out of the cult. Nexium did a similar thing with, what they called EMs or exploration of meaning. So, basically, you'd say, oh, I'm having difficulty. I get mad every time my husband doesn't do the dishes, and you'd go up there and Nancy, who was the supposed person who knew how to do these would say, well, what feelings does that trigger in you when he doesn't do the dishes? And you'd say something like, well, it makes me angry, and it reminds me of this in my childhood when I would ask for something, and I didn't get it.

And, oh, well, that's a you problem. Like, you need to work on this. It's it's and I mean, some of that may be true, but it it then sort of flips the onus onto the person and basically says, like, this is your problem, and then it kind of, like, strips them down. Like, it's it's meant to manipulate the whole thing. Right?

So these LGATs are really dangerous places. And I got invited to 1. And I didn't know what

Eric: a so much.

Sarah: Well, I didn't I didn't keep going. I recognized it for what it was even if I didn't know the term LGAT at the time, and I didn't. And I'm gonna leave out names here because Scientology it's not Scientology, just so you know. But, Scientology is a notoriously litigious group. So I don't know.

I'm hoping they don't sue us for even saying bad things about them here. But, like, a lot of these LGATs are very eager to sue people who speak out about them. So I'm going to just call this LGAT, an LGAT, and not say what it what it is, or, the person who was there leading it. Because my friend who was a teacher at the time, he has unfortunately since passed away, just heart problems. He invited me to this seminar.

And when he said seminar, I thought it was like a teaching thing because he was a teacher. I had yet to get into my board. I was still trying to get a job in the in the board. And so I thought, oh, this is this would maybe be helpful. And he told me it was being led by a very well known children's entertainer from the eighties, Canadian children's entertainer from the eighties.

If I were to say his name I'm not gonna say his name because, again, I don't wanna get in trouble with anyone. Mhmm. If I were to say his name, everybody in my age range who grew up in, like, the eighties would know exactly who this is, and they probably watched him on TV. So, yeah, it's not mister Dressup either, just FYI. Okay.

Mister Dressup is a mister dress up is wonderful. He can do no wrong. But, yeah, he this this person was gonna be there leading the summer. I was like, oh my god. Yeah.

I wanna go to this teaching seminar. That's what I thought it was with this person there and meet him. That would be amazing. So I went with my friend, and we get there, and it was at this it was it was not a hotel, but it was like, like an optimist hall or something like that. And my husband dropped me off, and he left.

He had to go somewhere. So I had no ride home. It's important to note this because I would have left if I could. Okay. But I get in there.

I sign in. I put my email down on the sheet. Bad idea because I still get the emails even though I've blocked them. I don't know how many times at this point. But I put my email down on the sheet.

I go inside this little conference room, and there's other people there, and they're mingling, we sit down and whatnot. And eventually, they get started, and they tell us that we're gonna do some really intense emotional work, and and and some of you are gonna have breakdowns and breakthroughs, and some of you may cry, and that's okay because we're all friends here, and I'm looking around like, what the actual f is this? Where am I? And I don't think my friend really knew what it was either. Like, I think he read a description and said the sound of it, and you have to bring a friend because all of these types of groups are pyramid schemes.

That's how you get your free whatever. Right?

Eric: Okay.

Sarah: So this was our first free intro session, and they tried to sell us more at the end. But so, like, they're saying, and everybody here is at choice. These were specific words that are often used like tech, you know, terms that the cult uses or whatever to say basically, like, you don't have to participate. You can sit out. You're you're you're no one's forcing you.

But, of course, that peer pressure tactic they use means that you're not going to be the 1 that sits out because then everybody's gonna be looking at you like, oh, well, you're not open to change. Right? Like, you're obviously resistant to change. You don't want to grow or whatever it is. Right?

So I did the stuff. Oh my god. It was weird. And, like, halfway through this, I'm like, this is a cult. I am at a cult.

This is a cult. Like, that's under my head because, like, 1 of the exercises they had us do was they had us find a stranger. And again, they separated me and my friends, so we weren't allowed to do any of these activities together. You find a stranger, and you look at their face and touch their face for 5 minutes. They timed it.

You couldn't say anything. You couldn't speak. You literally just had to stare into this person's eyes, this random human, and touch their face for 5 minutes. My skin crawls just thinking of it. Like, it was just it was basically like things that would push past your boundaries in every way shape or form to try to break down your boundaries so that you don't have any boundaries.

Right? So by the end of this seminar, I'm like, oh my God, what the heck have I stumbled into? I need to get the heck out of here. And they, of course, gave you the the the pitch and tried to get people to sign up for more. And when I looked into it later, a good chunk of their workshops are couples intimacy workshops

Eric: Mhmm.

Sarah: That are clothing optional workshops that involve partner sharing and all kinds of other stuff, which, again, no no shame to anyone who's into that kind of thing, but, like, it it was very clearly a cult. And I still get the emails.

Eric: I'm gonna bet you. And and you block the, senders on those when you get

Sarah: I've unsubscribed. I've I've, like, put it as spam. I've done whatever I need to do, but, like, I

Eric: still get it. You know, when you get emails like that, there's usually an option to block the sender.

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: But if you do that and you keep getting emails from them, that's a clue that they're sleazy because what they're actually doing is they're changing the email that it's coming from. Now you may not be able to see that because Yep. The the the from information that you see is just a label. They can put any any label on there that they want, and they can make it look like it's all coming from the same email address. But if you get down underneath it and actually look at the email address that it actually came from, it's gonna be different.

I get these spam things all the time from it's the same same scam, and I block it, and I get it again from a different email.

Sarah: Oh, yeah. And it is because now I'm, like, looking at this popular children's entertainer, and I'm like, oh, he's going to these intimacy workshops and swapping clothing optional, couple swapping. Like, the things I did not need to know about, like, a childhood entertainer that I watched as a kid that I now know. So there's that element of it. But there's also the whole, like, I googled it later, years later when I had a little bit more understanding of what type of cult this was and and how they operate.

And I have seen some really, like, questionable stuff come from people who have been involved with this group and have said, like, this was not okay. Like, this was very abusive, pushed past all of our boundaries, like, all kinds of stuff. So, yeah. So that was my cult story. Not quite as as as the sensitivity spot so far doesn't feel quite as messy, but it definitely has that LGAT feel.

Right because anybody who doesn't want to participate would be labeled as a a, you know, oh, you're not doing the work. You don't wanna better yourself. You don't wanna grow. You don't wanna whatever. Right?

Eric: So yeah.

Sarah: And and I mean, Steele obviously doesn't wanna be there in terms of, like, he doesn't wanna be he's not serious.

Eric: Wanna be undercover there.

Sarah: Yeah. He he wouldn't go there anyway. And and Laura, though, she's she's kinda being sucked into some of it, which is what's causing the tension. So we see, like and I although to be fair, Laura doesn't look super comfortable with the whole snuggle fest either. She seems kind

Eric: of like No. But we see we see in a little bit that she is kind of, buying into part of it at least.

Sarah: Part of it. Yeah. And I mean to again, some of it doesn't sound that bad. Writing a list of your partner's best qualities? Okay.

I could do that. Like, I wouldn't have an issue with something like that. Hugging random strangers, I'm not a fan of, but, like, you know, little things. Different they cloak respectability, and then they hide it underneath it some of the more, like

Eric: What they do is they they use things that are well, it's like a person who's trying to tell a lie Yeah. Or perpetuate a lie. They'll tell you a little bit of it that is true. Yeah. And then they'll tell you all the lies, and people look at the part that's true and say, well, if this is true and and then then this is also how they defend what they say.

Well, I didn't like you about this, and so they want you to infer that the rest is also true because this 1 little bit was true. And that's what they're doing here with this is that they're using some perhaps legitimate exercises. Sure. Yeah. Couples exercises, emotional training exercises.

They're using some things that are legitimate in certain circumstances to present that appearance of legitimacy, but then they're sneaking the rest of that stuff past you because Yeah. That's true. That's true. You can't say that that was not true.

Sarah: Exactly. And if anyone's interested in in watching, there's a documentary about NXIVM, called The Vow. It was on HBO. Really, really good. Worth watching.

And the person who blew the whistle on the branding and the sex cult part of it, Sarah Edmonson, she and her husband who were both in the cult, they host a podcast called a little bit culty, where they interview survivors of other cults and talk about, like, their experiences, but also worth listening to because it it kinda really breaks down these groups. But so we've got Steele and Laura just kind of, like, in the middle of this snuggle fest, and we see the massage woman hug Warren Spriggs, MD from Brentwood, California. She introduces herself as Ursula, and then she says touching and feeling. She's, like, clutching his shoulders.

Eric: Yeah. You know what kind of touching and feeling she's thinking about.

Sarah: Yeah. Exactly. Right? And then we see, Arthur Henderson trying to, like, get through, but oh, sorry. No.

That's Neil Brimsley. He's he's trying to get through the room. No. Sorry. It was Arthur.

My bad. I'm just ugh. This is a

Eric: Too many names. Too many names.

Sarah: Yeah. Arthur's trying to make make his way through the group, and then the woman, Judy Fulton, she la like, launches herself at him and introduces herself as Judy Fulton from San Jose. He says his name is Arthur Henderson, associate director of the spa, and he doesn't look super comfortable there any No. Either, which we find out later partly his sort of animosity with Neil Brimsley. But Mhmm.

Neil comes or sorry. A man comes around, hugs both of them, telling them his name is Ralph Fulton, and he compliments him on the setup they have at the spa.

Eric: Artifices them. I wonder what he's thinking.

Sarah: And I know the script describes Dolores as a sparrow. I sort of described her as mousy. And not as an insult, but she just she this actress is really good at sort of, like, making herself look small. Mhmm. In a

Eric: way that She is small physically in in the society.

Sarah: Physically, but I just mean, like, small in terms of personality. Like, she she clearly is the kind of person who doesn't feel like they're worth much, and she says that. She's a plain old housewife. Like, we talked about how earlier, like, being a stay at home spouse, I'll say wife or husband, is a job. It's not

Eric: It's a tough job.

Sarah: And it's a tough job, and it's something that is often devalued as, oh, you're just a stay at home parent or just a stay at home. What have you?

Eric: It's like Usually, white people who don't have the cojones can do it themselves.

Sarah: Exactly. And so, like, she's obviously devalued herself to the point where she's kind of, like

Eric: Buying the story.

Sarah: Yeah. Leading leading with it, like, just a plain old housewife. And and I do credit Ursula for this. I like you, Dolores, and then she hugs her. You know, that's nice.

That's that's nice. Like, I mean, she shoves her face in her boobs. Yeah. A little weird, but like,

Eric: you know Again, I mean, you you kinda have to wonder what what Ursula's up to and

Sarah: meanwhile, we see Neil walking among them and, you know, encouraging them to put some pizzazz into those snuggles. He turns and grabs Laura, lifting her into the air, and she kind of, like, laughs in surprise, but she's obviously not She's

Eric: not comfortable.

Sarah: No. She introduces herself as Laura Blayne, and it's funny how they both have to look at their name tags as if they're, like, really so

Eric: this week?

Sarah: Yeah. They're so, like, turned around by this whole situation that they're like, I'm Laura Laura Laura Blaine. Laura Blaine. That's me. Laura Blaine.

Steele awkwardly says he's Richard Blaine. I'm with her. He goes over to steal and tries to snuggle him. We kinda steal kinda pulls back. So he he tells them both to snuggle as he walks away.

And steal turns as another woman launches herself at him, taking him by surprise. This is Nancy Hughes from Encino. Again, he points at his name tag, telling her he's Richard Blaine. She grabs his hand asking how long they've been married and Steele awkwardly says, well, we're quite new at this. Laura, meanwhile, has just been snuggled by Nancy's husband who tells him he's Gordon Hughes.

And he says he hopes they will be as happy as they are after 12 years and hugs her again. He lets her go and she inches closer to Steele telling him, smile, darling. So that that scene is funny. I do like that scene. And then we later see them walking through the grounds of the spa.

Laura's asking, what's the matter with him? And he tells her, he she can't take this trip seriously. And Laura says, last night, she happened to read. You can be better than okay, and it has some very good ideas in it. And if we look at the script, they they're they're having a different conversation in the script.

She says, you just can't take anything seriously. Can you? And he says, it's merely a job. And she says, let's do it right by giving everybody the impression that we're here to enrich our marriage. And he says, Laura, I have no I like this line.

I have no desire to rub psyches with every Tom, Dick and Ursula. We've got a case to solve and the sooner the better. So that's the conversation that they have in the script. But in the actual episode, she says that she read you can be better than okay, and it has some very good ideas in it. So this again feels like more of an organic conversation.

He says such as and she says, you should read it too. It might improve your attitude towards relationships.

Eric: In other words, she can't think of a single thing in the book that was a good idea.

Sarah: Well, I don't think it's that. I think it's more along the lines of she read this book, and it obviously pinged some things that have been bothering her about their relationship. And rather than specifically bring up things that might cause an argument, she's trying to get him to read it in the hopes that subconsciously, it will ping the same things for him too.

Eric: I I think in a in a normal conversation where you genuinely thought that there were some good things in a book, you're gonna say something about some of those things. You may not get too specific, but you're gonna talk about you know, it talks about how it's important to share feelings and my book you know, something in just a general way. You're not gonna just you need to read the book. It's like, excuse me?

Sarah: I think it's actually narratively important that she avoids it because that means when they get to the fight scene, when they get to the big fight scene, that's when the all the, like, stuff gets stripped away because that's the whole point. They're avoiding 1 another throughout this whole episode. Right? Like, she's Alright. Not wanting to tell him what was in the book because she doesn't wanna start a fight.

She wants him to read the book so that he can subconsciously absorb what she's trying to tell. Like and this isn't a way to communicate. You're right. If you're if you're actually genuinely communicating with somebody, you would say these things. But Laura and Steele have been dancing around these serious issues, and and she's not comfortable bringing them up directly.

So she says it might improve your attitude. Right? He says, I wasn't and of course, he takes that not not great, which Sure.

Eric: I mean

Sarah: Who would? Right? He he says, any relationship in particular? And she he then says, hey. Look.

I wasn't aware of my attitude needed improvement. Laura's about to respond when they hear a scream. So then we see Maxine. She's sitting on this, like, cement dais, I guess. I'm not sure what you'd call it, but she's screaming.

Laura and Steele run over, and they ask her what's wrong. And she says, wrong? Oh, the screaming. Yeah. Steele says, yes.

And she says, she was just externalizing her core of pain. She can see Steele's confusion, so she introduces herself as Maxine Gilroy, and she teaches Primal Shriek. Laura introduces herself as Laura Blaine and Richard Blaine. And I love how Steele ex I love how Steele interprets this. I I love his line here because he's like, so we could just assume you're having a healthy go at it.

Yeah. This is maybe the 1 thing that Steele kind of understands. Right? Like she she's she's upset. So she's just having a good scream.

Yeah. And he calls it a healthy go at it. Like, there's nothing wrong with what maybe, like, removing yourself from a situation, walking out the door going, and then coming back in and being, okay. Let's try this again. Because as a parent, I happen to find myself needing sometimes to walk away from from the child, go into the other room, beat the crap out of my pillow, and then walk back into the room and be like, okay.

We're gonna be calm now. We're not gonna yell. So, yeah. She says, exactly. It's the only way that she can cope with the reality of leaving the spa next week.

Laura is surprised to hear that she's leaving, and Maxine says she can't take it anymore. Not with what they're doing to this place. Steele asks who, and Maxine says, Gerald and Sonia Steinmetz, Brimsley, Henderson, all of them with their shallow interviews and frothy books, they are prostituting the name of the most brilliant man in the world. Oh, yeah. Not a cult.

Definitely not a cult.

Eric: And, obviously, it's the everything they're teaching is working so well because they can't get along with each other.

Sarah: No. Well, that's it too. Right? Like, she's she's clearly not okay. She's not better than okay.

She's not even okay.

Eric: Yes. Clearly, this is a fantastic advertisement for their organization. And

Sarah: then Laura kind of sell ice sarcastically says, Carl Friedlick. And Maxine doesn't catch it because she because, you know, she continues saying, the kindest, wisest man she's ever known. He was totally in touch with his feelings. And when he died, she was devastated, but she vowed she would continue his work. Now and she says 8 years of sacrifice here in the script.

She says 16. Mhmm. But it doesn't really matter. After 8 years of sacrifice, she couldn't care if the place burned to the ground. Ground.

K? She continues Is there

Eric: is there some unresolved hostility there that we need to work through?

Sarah: I feel like there might be. Sorry. She looks up and says, it's money. Money is all they care about. The mental health of an entire nation be damned.

Still, the look on his face, he looks almost enthralled by her outburst. Right? He's just staring at her wondrously, wow. This lady is off her hinge. And Yeah.

If it's not entertaining, I don't know what it is. Laura checks her watch and pointedly says that they're late for their next encounter. Their other sensitivity seminar. Sorry. He sort of comes out of his trance, thanks her for sharing her feelings, and they walk away.

And as they do, Laura says prime suspect, and then we hear

Eric: Can I say I like her sweater?

Sarah: I do. Yes. Yeah. It's she they look great in this episode. I can't think of a single outfit that

Eric: No. I I I meant

Sarah: Oh, Maxine's.

Eric: Maxine's.

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. She looks good too. It's a nice sweater. Yes.

The streaking and the Steele primal, I'd say. So that's fun. Inside a conference room, we see a group in a circle, and it's similar people that we all met in the other snuggle seminar. And we've got Arthur Henderson. He's passing out paper to everyone, telling them that for the first exercise, are to think of their mates' most wonderful and endearing qualities.

Qualities that brought them together hopefully with the with their help for a lifetime. He then tells them to write their mate a letter listing those qualities 1 by 1 and find a quiet place to exchange them. And, again, this is a very benign sort of exercise. Right? Like, this is not something that would be particularly Cultist.

Or cultish or anything like that. It's what you might do afterwards, like, with it. Like, if you're, you know, forcing them to read their letter or or then having them write a letter where they're listing all their mates' worst qualities and then reading it out loud or something like that. But right now, this is a fairly innocent little exercise. And, yeah, like, Steele, you can see him smiling awkwardly as Arthur asked if they have any questions, and Nancy Hughes, the biggest brown noser on the planet, speaks up with an indulgent, crap eating grin and says, yes.

I might need a second sheet of paper.

Eric: Yeah. Right. Gag needs Don't you just wanna punch people?

Sarah: Yeah. Don't you just wanna punch people like that? The people that are like, our relationship is just so perfect, and we're just

Eric: You're just a show off. Just admit it.

Sarah: Yeah. Well, I well, Anna, it's probably all a bunch of crap too. Like, you probably secretly hate each other. And because I had I had friends who are shockingly now divorced,

Eric: who

Sarah: You you

Eric: you say that with with such lack of shock.

Sarah: Yeah. Well, years and years and years ago, we went somewhere, like, it was a convention or something, and we were talking to them, and and I can't remember how the conversation came up. But her now ex said that they never fight. They never fight. And I'm looking over at Scott.

Scott's looking over me, and I'm thinking bull bull. I don't believe that for a second. And if it is true, that's even worse. Because like, if you're not and I'm not saying that you should be fighting with your spouse every day, but, like, if you're actively if you never have an argument ever

Eric: You're not engaged.

Sarah: You're not engaged. You're not communicating because, like, you can't tell me that you agree about every single thing that your spouse doesn't does. It's not possible. Unless you've cloned yourself and married yourself. And even then, I could find a few things to fight with myself about.

Right? So, like, you are you are avoiding a confrontation if that is the case. If you're never fighting, 1 of you is avoiding confrontation or both, and you're just going along with being unhappy to avoid fighting and thinking your marriage is perfect because you never fight. It's it's not possible. So, yeah, I I call bull crap on Nancy and

Eric: Gordon. In fairness, some people will say they don't fight, meaning they don't have knockdown drag outs. And

Sarah: Which okay.

Eric: Fair. Ignoring the fact that they have they do have major disagreements on things.

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: And it can get a bit heated at time, but they you know, the it doesn't get physical, which to some people, that's fighting.

Sarah: It could yeah.

Eric: I mean it's a bad definition of it, but Yeah. Some people, that's it.

Sarah: To me, my definition of it is, like, a fight versus what I would call an argument. My husband and I have arguments. We don't have fights. Fights are when you get nasty. And I don't mean physically, although that could also be it.

But, like, I mean, when you start hitting below the belt, when you start going after the person rather than the thing that you're annoyed by. I I can't say we've never done that because, obviously, nobody's perfect, but that's we try not to. We try to just stick with, like, I'm annoyed that you keep not putting the toilet paper roll on the actual toilet paper holder, even though it's it's sitting right there, and you're home all day, and you could have done it and you haven't. And now I have to come home and do it, and that's anyway. Or

Eric: they insist on putting it on the roll wrong.

Sarah: Yeah. Okay. That too.

Eric: Beards are okay. Mullets are not. And if you look at the patent for the toilet paper roll, it's coming down like a beard, not a mullet. There is the correct way to load the toilet paper dispenser.

Sarah: I'm gonna get you to email, Scott. Anyway, so Nancy says she needs a second sheet of paper. Everyone laughs. Her husband blows her a kiss. The rest of us all throw up.

Yeah. Dolores speaks up and says, what if she can't remember? Warren, her husband looks at her in dismay, and she says it was a long time ago when she was working to put him through med school. And that feels to me like the look on his face. I mean, she she obviously they fight about it later too.

Mhmm. Suggests that this is maybe the first time she's actually spoken up about that, because he looks sort of, like, shocked by it. And she almost looks shocked by it too. Like, she's actually speaking up on her own behalf. So, Arthur kneels down, and he says that he appreciates her honesty or respects her honesty and then touches Warren on the back of the head, tells him he should too.

And, again, this is like, on the surface The

Eric: touching is unnecessary.

Sarah: Well, the touching is unnecessary. But, yeah, on the surface, the advice is good, but maybe not in the middle of a room with total strangers. Like, that because you're Well, so but see, that's

Eric: this shouldn't be going on at all in a room full of total strangers. Even the conversation, even the instructions, this is this is private stuff.

Sarah: Because if if she's bringing up a legitimate issue with her husband, and it sounds like she is, like, that she has a legitimate issue that he doesn't look at her anymore, and she has and he has some issues with her, and that both of them seem fair. But, like, if she's pointing it out in front of a room full of strangers, the likelihood of him getting defensive and pushing back is way higher than if they were alone and and, you know, there was a qualified psychiatrist with them to say

Eric: Or maybe a qualified marriage counselor.

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah.

Eric: Exactly. And see, that's, you know, that's the thing that we haven't really talked about up to this point. But with all these groups you're you're talking about, they're they're focused on couples, but do they actually have any qualified people running them? Qualified marriage counselors. They they may have a piece of paper that says they are issued from Joe's University, you know, which they bought off the Internet for $25.

But are they really qualified? And that's that's what's going on here is none of these people are qualified to be doing what they're they're saying that they're doing.

Sarah: The key to this, again, this kinda goes back to this LGAT model. Right? Because usually, you have 1 person who has a qualification of some kind, but maybe not necessarily what they're specifically doing. So if you look at NXIVM Mhmm. Keith Ranieri had no qualifications.

He claimed he was the smartest man in the world, the most ethical man in the world. He claimed he had all these things that it turns out were all complete bullcrap. But Nancy Saltzman, the his partner in the prefect, she did have a degree, site I think it was, like, in in neural manipulation. Like, she literally had a degree in how to manipulate people. I can't remember exactly what it was called, but she used it to

Eric: Manipulate people.

Sarah: Like, manipulate people. I'm trying to remember what it was. I'm I'm googling it here because she had a degree, earned her BA from Tufts, and then she earned her JD from Loyola School in Loyola Marymount. She anyway, I'll I'll figure it out, but it was yeah. It was something really, like, twisted that she used it for.

Yeah.

Eric: And well, see, that's the thing is that there's a lot of people that that, like you said, have a degree in 1 thing, but they're off doing something else. But they say, I've got a degree as if that qualifies them. It's like plastic surgeons. There's a lot of people out there doing plastic surgery that have got a very basic medical degree. They are not qualified plastic surgeons.

They do not have a degree in plastic surgery, but they're doing it because they've I've got a doctor. I've got a degree in medical. You know? Yeah. It's like and I may get in trouble for saying this.

Bill Nye, the science guy, is not a scientist.

Sarah: I thought he was?

Eric: He's got an engineering degree.

Sarah: Oh.

Eric: But engineering degree is not science. You use science. You you but you look up a bunch of values in in the Marx engineering handbook. You apply those. You do some some math of predefined formulas.

You're just you're just I hate to say it because I I studied industrial drafting, so I I got exposed to some of this. It's just basically plugging in numbers and calculating things based on things that other people have done. You're not a scientist. He's not a scientist. He's an actor playing a scientist.

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: But he's got the credibility because he can say, I'm Bill Nythe, the science guy, in the same way that some of these plastic surgeons claim, well, I've I've got a qualified medical degree. Yeah. In toe buffing.

Sarah: Okay. So neurolinguistic programming, that was what it was. And it's basically a psychological approach using analyzing strategies used by successful individuals to apply them to personal development, often focusing on the relationship between language behavior and neurological processes. Nancy Salzman, a licensed nurse with training in NLP and hypnosis, used these techniques to help develop the curriculum for Nexium and the organization she co founded with Keith Rumiere. So that's what she used.

Neuro linguistic programming, I e, using language to manipulate it. Manipulate. Basically. So, anyway

Eric: That's not exactly the kind of organization you probably wanna get involved with.

Sarah: No. And and Laura, you can see that Laura is kind of excited to do this exercise. Henderson tells them that the whole idea of this exercise is to get down to the nitty gritty. Laura leans down and smiles. She's got her little pen, and she's Laura's an academic.

Laura loves to have a homework assignment. Laura is the kind of person that would be 1000% on board with something like this, even if it's, like, she hasn't clued into the fact that it's not 100% legit because to her, giving her a problem to solve is is like her bread and butter. That's what she does. Yeah. Right?

Whereas Steele asking him to think inwardly is objectively difficult, and that's not an insult. I'm not saying that to like, as an insult. It's it's because he's got such a painful childhood that looking into his past is difficult for him. Looking into his feelings is difficult for him.

Eric: I'm gonna say 2 things. First of all, the look on Laura's face is just she's she's in heaven. Yeah. And she's in heaven looking at Steele. It's not just the assignment.

It's looking at him, and she's got these things going on in her head. But as far as Steele's attitude, yes, a lot of it is because of his background. But a lot of it's also just he's a guy. Guys don't talk about feelings. Okay?

Sarah: Well, I think that's like societally programmed. Right? Is is is like society tells You you

Eric: know, there is some science that says men and women do think differently. Their their brains process information differently. They respond to things differently. Women do have a tendency, and this is not a criticism, to come from a more emotional base. Men have a tendency to come from a more analytical base, which is great because, you know, the 2 halves work together to create a whole.

But, yeah, it's kind of a bad thing to sit there and expect, in this case, Steele to have all this emotional insight when that's kind of contrary to his basic nature just as a man, but especially when you talk about a man who has come from the background that he's had.

Sarah: Yeah. Well, I I I'm not I I don't disagree with you that there is also some, like, base level, programming. But I do think the social conditioning features into it as well because there's

Eric: Well, yeah. That can reinforce.

Sarah: Especially in the eighties. Right? And he he would have grown up in the fifties. Like, that's when he would have been born. Mhmm.

That would sort of, like, reinforce that idea of, like, men don't talk about their emotions. Men just get on with it. Men and I doubt that Daniel, as much as Daniel helps Steele, I doubt that Steele or Daniel helped Steele emotionally process what he went through. Like, I don't think they sat down and had deep conversations or that he told Steele like, he didn't even tell me he's his father. Like Yeah.

You know? I I don't think he he gave the boy a safe place, and he gave him a mentor, and and he made Steele feel safe. And those were all things that he needed. But at no point did Steele ever have a chance to deconstruct or break down what he went through. And he I don't think had any anybody ever sort of model that for him or show him why that's important or why it helps to talk about, like, things like fear and sadness.

They often just get converted into anger. And and I'm not saying steal specifically, but, like, these socialization stereotypes, man up, boys don't cry. The fact that men are not like, women are encouraged to have these close friendships where they talk to 1 another and share their feelings, but men are not encouraged to do the same, especially back then, there'd be that, oh, well, this is this is gay. Like, we don't wanna talk about so Mhmm. At no point would he ever have that model in front of him.

Like, it just wouldn't be there for him.

Eric: Yeah. And and I agree that the the the social stereotypes can reinforce the existing basic natural tendencies more than they should. But Yeah. I'm just saying that Steele's lack of comfort with this whole exercise is more than just his background. It's also somewhat the fact that he's just a man, and and so he has that as a base of of operation that has been reinforced by his background.

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: Which, again, is is the social conditioning.

Sarah: Yeah. It's it's a it's a combination of all the things. Right? Because he doesn't have these emotional tools to even articulate these complex feelings that he has. He doesn't know what to to label them.

So, you know, putting putting that together is gonna be tougher for him to do.

Eric: And and in fairness, can can I be critical of women for a moment?

Sarah: Abs I mean, on International Women's Day? Sure. Sorry.

Eric: There is sometimes a tendency by a lot of women to criticize a man when he does do exactly what they demand that he do, get emotional, express his feelings. And then it's then it's then they get, as you said, confrontational. They get offended because the man expressed their feelings, and they didn't like what they heard.

Sarah: I mean

Eric: And so then they then they, you know, beat the man up, and he's, well, fine. If that's the way it's gonna be, I'm never doing that again. And it isn't necessarily his partner that does that. It could have been, you know, somebody in the past, you know, when he was in college, high school, grade school, a teacher. Know?

Sarah: Yeah. This is what I mean by social conditioning. It just takes 1 person to say, like, you shouldn't talk about your feelings to cause somebody to turn inward and say, okay.

Eric: Or to ridicule them for it.

Sarah: Yeah. Especially them to mock them. Like, yeah. If it was a teacher, a mentor, an authority figure, or a previous partner or whatever, they're going to learn very quickly that it's not safe for me to be vulnerable because if I'm vulnerable, then I'm going to be punished.

Eric: So Welcome to the world of men.

Sarah: And still would have learned that with every single family he was with.

Eric: Oh, yeah. Every single time he alludes to it at some some point where he says that all I was was an, another Yeah. Way to to bilk the government out of more money.

Sarah: Yeah. So at no point has he ever felt loved, safe, or or able to express himself. And so this kind of exercise, even just something where he's listing her best qualities would feel Invasive. Like a test that he doesn't know the he like like a math test where he hasn't learned the formulas. Right?

Like, doesn't know what to do here. Do I write down my genuine feelings for her? How do how far do I go? How deep do I get? What do I say?

Like, it it would be very, very challenging for him to do this, and she she's right into it because for her, breaking down things like her feelings and and whatnot, that's something that she's doing all the time. And all obviously, hers is her own reaction to her trauma as well. Both of them are reacting to their backgrounds.

Eric: I've I've got I've got something I'm gonna bring up on that later, but it's interesting that you're saying that because there's an issue there, I think.

Sarah: Okay. Okay. We'll we'll get there when we mention it when we

Eric: get there.

Sarah: So we go to this small gazebo where we see them walk up, and Steele immediately gets to work checking the electrical outlet. While Laura sort of looks at the ocean, she turns around, and she asked what he's doing. He tells her he's checking the wiring, reminding her that guest was nearly electrocuted here. She says, well, are you gonna show me your letter? And still lies and says that he was merely maintaining their cover.

It's interesting that he tried to do the the the exercise at all. Like, he wrote something down. It wasn't Well, he had

Eric: to look like he was writing. And so he could have just been writing, you know, his his shopping list for the next week. He Nobody's gonna look at it.

Sarah: He does say to Laura, though, that he was just writing a list of places they should check out, and that's what he could have written, but he didn't. Yeah. He he did sort of write a list of her, quote, unquote, best qualities, but it they were obviously surface level things that he's writing down. Again, probably because he's not sure what he's doing.

Eric: Like, he's crazy. Writing down the the places that they needed to look.

Sarah: He would have way been better way better off if he had done done that because, like, she looks disappointed. She says, so I don't get to see it. He insists it's merely a list of things I should be checking out. The hot tub where Gerald had his accident, the maintenance closet that burned down, Maxine the screamer. Yeah.

He says, honestly, you should get your

Eric: eye back home. I'm sorry. That line. It just it just hit me.

Sarah: I know. I know. Shush. Shush. Shush.

You've got Ursula touching and feeling and Maxine the screamer. I see where you're going with this.

Eric: We're just gonna stop. No. I'm not going there. They're they're they're leading me there.

Sarah: You took a tiny step, and there the conclusions were. Yeah. That's right. So, yeah, the he tells her that she should get her mind back on the case and off these sophomoric exercises. Oh, that touches a nerve.

Even if he's right, she says, perhaps they wouldn't seem so sophomoric if he took them more seriously. Sarcastically, he says, if this has anything to do with his attitude problem, and she says, you're always hiding behind flip remarks. And she's not wrong. He does tend to deflect Mhmm. With flipness and, you know, sometimes an an innuendo or what have you.

But he's also not wrong in saying, like, you haven't told me what my attitude problem is, and you're you're still, like you know, you're you're

Eric: If you don't know, I'm not going to tell

Sarah: you. Yeah. So he he insists he's not hiding behind anything. I mean, if any of if anyone's hiding in this relationship, it's her. She doesn't get a chance to respond.

However, as Arthur approaches them, they sit down and smile. The the the quickness with which they sit down and, like, put on the happy smiles. Yeah. It's quite funny. And then he's asked them how they're doing.

Steele tells them, no. Just getting down to the nitty gritty. And Arthur points out he doesn't see any letters being exchanged. Steele takes out the paper, and Laura snatches it from him saying that Richard is such a tease. And Steele calls her an incurable romantic, and then Arthur says, oh, how truly lovely.

And he's sure they want to be alone. They both smile. Yes.

Eric: You know, a guy who's supposed to be so in tune to people, he totally missed the sarcasm.

Sarah: Right over his head. Yeah. Because he walks away, and he reaches for the letter, but she refuses to give it to him. She walks over to the side there and begins to read it. Her face falls as she does so.

She tells him in surprise, this isn't a list. He was doing the exercise uncomfortably. He says, he was just doodling. And she says, no. This is a list of my best qualities.

She reads, dressed. He says, well, certainly compared to Mildred. Ouch. Ouch. Right?

Why you gotta drag Mildred into this?

Eric: Well, I mean, it's it's like, what is the least well dressed person? Or, know, it's it's like, what is the lowest bar I can compare you to?

Sarah: Well, I think Mildred's

Eric: probably best moment. Bar great.

Sarah: Like, for a woman of her age and her like, I like her I like her dresses. I think she

Eric: looks good for I think clearly Mildred or Laura is interpreting this as

Sarah: Yeah. As an insult.

Eric: What's the lowest bar you can find and put me just barely above it?

Sarah: Yeah. And then so, ouch. Poor Millie. Right? She looks hurt, and he reads frugal, and he says it's an underestimated virtue.

Like

Eric: That's like saying I'm kind to furry animals.

Sarah: Believe you find us number 4 on the list. Which wow. So she, you know, she is furious. She says, I was writing how I really felt, but you're not gonna get to see it. She crumbles her list into a ball

Eric: that solve everything. Right?

Sarah: He's like, what are you doing? And he she reminds he reminds her they're undercover. She says, well, does that mean we can't explore our feelings at the same time? Kind of. Yeah.

Kinda does. Like, it kinda feels like he's a

Eric: people's rule? The first thing is to always put the first thing first.

Sarah: Yeah. Like, it it feels like she's not focused on what they're actually supposed to be doing, and he's actually focused for once mainly because he's trying to avoid what she's doing, but still Well, like,

Eric: hey. It doesn't matter what the motivation is as long as you're doing the job.

Sarah: Right? And, he says our perf and this again, this is 1 of those moments where he screws up. He says the perfect place to explore their feelings would be a moonlit beach in Maui. And he's not wrong. I mean but he's also, like, doing the thing that she just said he does, which is deflect to, like, equip.

Right? Like and then she says she says, you only wanna talk about things when you when you have me in a clinch. And then he grins and says, who says anything about talking? Dude, you have to know this is not helping.

Eric: I mean, put down the shovel. Put down the shovel and stop digging.

Sarah: At this point, you have got to know that that was not the right thing to say. But, again And yet was. Yeah. It's 1 of those moments where he doesn't, like, go he he doesn't know else what else to say. So he he defaults to an innuendo.

Eric: Is he even really consciously aware of

Sarah: I don't think he is. I honestly don't think he is. I think this is just a knee jerk, like, reaction to okay. She's trying to like, if I if I charm her, she'll she'll drop it. I'll say something charming.

In his mind, that's charming. In her mind, it's like, no.

Eric: And has he not figured out that at least for this last season, that hasn't been working?

Sarah: No. He hasn't. Probably for the

Eric: last 2 seasons, that hasn't been working.

Sarah: And in the original script, he says when she says, like, I thought you were writing something. He says, solid leads that would help solve this case if you weren't so caught up in these mind games. So she says, mind games, is that all you think of our relationship? He says, Laura, don't twist my words. She says, you're twisting mine.

Using work as a convenient excuse to avoid anything that could be even remotely construed as meaningful conversation between us. What are you so afraid of? And then Richard or Henderson shows up, then she looks at the list. That conversation's the same. And then

Eric: You know? And the thing is Laura's response to the term mind games was totally off base because he was not talking about her

Sarah: No. And I'm glad again.

Eric: He was talking about the mind games of this whole clinic Yeah. Yeah. Thingy, buddy. The booby. Yeah.

Again,

Sarah: I'm glad they took this conversation and fixed it because she when she throws away her letter, she says, I'll never understand you. And he says, why are you taking this seriously? And she says, maybe because I take us seriously. And that's when the gazebo falls, which I'm glad they changed that too. Yeah.

But he says that thing about who says anything about talking, and then she says, perfect. I'm trying to have a serious conversation. You're making adolescent passes. That is a legitimate response to what he's just said. Right?

Regardless of whether or not they should be having a serious conversation about the relationship at this moment in time, she is trying to have a serious talk, and he's making jokes that he knows are gonna tick her off.

Eric: And then his his next his response is clueless. Laura, what's gotten into you? Right.

Sarah: You're Dude.

Eric: She's trying to have a serious conversation, and you are just totally missing the boat that

Sarah: she's wanting

Eric: to do that. Hours ago.

Sarah: Yes. You're still at the pier.

Eric: Right? In fact, you didn't even have a ticket.

Sarah: No. Exactly. But he says what's gotten into her, and she says our relationship has been on hold for too long. We need to shake things up a bit and see what happens. And that's actually a really funny lead in to the gazebo literally just falling down the cliff.

Eric: Except that their relationship really hasn't been on hold here recently. I mean, it was on hold during the first part of season 3. But since then, it seems like it's been moving along. Maybe not at the rate that she would like, but it doesn't seem like it's been on hold.

Sarah: I think it I think what she means by that is that they've made some really, like, big strides in the small things, but the big things are still something they're avoiding. Actively avoiding. Right? They're actively avoiding talking about what they need, and that comes up in the fight. She needs something from him that he's not able to give, and he needs something from her that she hasn't been able to give.

And neither 1 of them are talking about why they're not able to give it, or, like, how they could possibly get to a point where they could be able to give it. Like, they're just they're you know? So she's trying to get him there, but you can't get somebody there by strong arming them into

Eric: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

Sarah: Or yeah. I would say you could lead a man to a sensitivity spa, but you can't make him think. So

Eric: No. That's the problem is all he does is think.

Sarah: Yeah. No. I'm just I'm I'm teasing. It was the best thing I could come up with. Anyway That's

Eric: the best you could come up with?

Sarah: Shut up. I feel like you're you're criticizing me.

Eric: Yeah. I am.

Sarah: Anyway, the scene switches, and we see this rope sort of rigged to a machine that pulls Laura and Steele up from wherever it is they ended up landing. Surrounding them are Arthur, Ursula, Nancy, and some other onlookers. Nancy is like, obviously, that could have been us. Like, not are they okay? Perfect.

Arthur asked if they're alright. Laura says, luckily, the gazebo caught a ledge on their way down. Arthur asked what happened, adding that when he looked in on them, they were doing so well. And Steele Riley says, obviously, the earth moved from off them. So I like that.

Ursula worriedly says they could have been killed, and Laura agrees that the thought did occur. Arthur declares it a freak accident saying these things happen, and Steele says, oh, yeah, along with brush fires and earthquakes. Come on. Like, he tells Laura to come along, and as they walk away, he says to Sonia and Gerald that he doesn't mean to be an alarmist, but that was no accident. Sonia asked, are you sure they've had a lot of erosion problems?

Then why would you have a gazebo on the edge of a cliff?

Eric: Yeah. Well, now now now wait a minute. I'm thinking back. It's been half a century at least, may probably longer, that people have been building homes on the cliffs along the California Coast. Yeah.

And the land is is, you know, sloughing off, and the houses collapse and fall in, and they still do it. They still buy these houses. You know?

Sarah: Yep. There was, there's a mansion. Like, we live close to the are gonna roll their eyes here, like, in London, Ontario, there is a Thames River. Yeah. We have no originality whatsoever.

And we live, like, our apartment is the Thames River is kind of behind it, and the street that runs behind the cemetery that's behind our apartment is Riverside. And, obviously, it's called that because it is, like, beside the river. And there is a lot of houses original. Yeah. I know.

There's a lot of houses that are built on that side of the river. And 1 in particular was, like, a $2,000,000 massive mansion. And it had 2, like, buildings, the main house and, like, the garage, which was almost as big as the main house, and the garage literally like, these people bought it, and, like, a month or so later, the garage slid off and fell down. They didn't sell the house. They just, like, demolished it.

And I'm like, we don't you know, that's gonna happen to your house too. It's in the same spot. Yeah. Anyway. So, yeah.

In the background, we hear a voice yelling, over here. They rush over to where Neil Brimsley is standing. The ground is soggy as he points out that it's soaked. Laura and Steele test it out, and he says it's it's not surprised, adding there's enough water here to destabilize an entire hillside. Gerald wonders where it's coming from, and the scene cuts to a hot tub where underneath water is pouring out.

The tear tear caker tear caker.

Eric: Tear caker.

Sarah: Yeah. The caretaker tells him that water has been pouring out of the relief valve all night long. Arthur condescendingly says to Ethan, the caretaker, that he can see that. Ethan says, don't look at me. It was fine when I stopped by the other night before to add some chemicals.

Then accusingly, he points out that anybody could have gotten at it. Laura asks Gerald if that's the caretaker, and Gerald confirms that his name is Ethan Deerfield. Been with them for years. Shocked, Sonya asks if he means the panel wasn't locked, and Ethan says he didn't know it should have been. I I would think that anything that could be tampered with

Eric: Yeah. Especially under the circumstances.

Sarah: But Yeah.

Eric: Yeah. Utility sheds, things like that. Yeah. You usually keep them locked whether you Exactly. You need to or not.

That's just protocol.

Sarah: Yeah. So she looks over at Arthur and pointedly says she thought she told him 2 months ago that anything that could be tampered with was to put under lock and key. Arthur demands to know that if he is to personally see to it that every piece of equipment is locked up, when will he find the time to teach and schedule his staff? And Arthur, I feel you because every time I go to a staff meeting or a PD session, they load more crap onto us that we're supposed to do. And I find myself thinking, okay.

When do I teach? Like, when do I actually Well teach? You know? When do I do that?

Eric: Students have the same issue because every teacher gives them homework as if they're the only teacher giving out homework.

Sarah: I would like to point out that I I give out work, but I also give ample class time for them to work on it. So if they end up with homework, that's their fault because they have time to

Eric: would be the exception rather than the rule.

Sarah: I think a lot of teachers now do that. I don't think it was necessarily the case back then, but it's at least in Ontario, there's been a shift to class class time as a as a, you know, a model for a resource. Yeah. Like, I don't think Kira's ever brought home, like, once or twice. She's brought home some stuff she has to do, but for the most part, she's she does it in school.

So, but, yeah, like, it's it's Sony reminds him. He's the associate director. He's paid to take care of these things. She doesn't care where he finds the time. Arthur says, okay.

He'll look into it right away. Then smugly says, he sure someone else can take his next class. He looks right at Brimsley and says, out of my way, because Neil's standing there looking real smug. Like, hey. You're gonna get fired.

Yeah. So, yeah, inside Gerald and Sonya's office, we see Gerald on the phone. He hangs up upset, and Sonya asks, what is it? He tells her that that was the state licensing bureau, and they know about the landslide in detail. Laura asked if there's any idea how he notified him.

He says they wouldn't share that with him, but their license renewal is officially on hold until the special investigator gets there to make his report, and you would think that would cancel the encounter, but no. No. Mhmm. No. No.

They're not allowed to continue. Sonia angrily says again, this is really clever of her to pointedly say thanks to that incompetent Arthur Henderson Mhmm. Right in front of Steele and Laura because, obviously, that's going to direct suspicion their way or his way. Gerald argues that Henderson is only human, and that if someone wants to shut them down, they will find out a way no matter who's in charge. Sonya angrily says they were fools, and she knew they should have promoted Neil Brimsley again, giving Steele and Laura information.

That is a red herring. This catches Steele's attention. Gerald says that both he and Henderson were up for a position of associate director, but Henderson was better qualified. Laura tells Steele it seems the seeds of discontent are sprouting up in bunches. Gerald is confused about that, and Steele says, 2 highly intense gentlemen competing for the same job in a profession that is fraught with professional jealousy is a bit anyway, you know, kinda waves his hand.

Mhmm. Then, of course, Sonia walks it back because that's that's how she does it. She she's, oh, no. No. No.

Not here at the spa. Neil and Arthur know they could never tolerate that sort of destructive behavior.

Eric: Oh, no. Never. Yeah.

Sarah: So she's sort of, like, dangling the carrot. Then, no. No. No. Removing the carrot.

Right? Gerald adds learning to cope is the crux of the free, like, system. Sonya agrees. Laura asks about Maxine wondering what her story is. Steele asks why they didn't tell them that she was leaving at the end of the season.

Recession. Sorry. Sonya says, oh, was that important? Voorhe says, it is when she openly admits she wants the spa to burn to the ground. Sonya shakes her head and says, poor Maxine fantasizing as usual.

Okay. That's a take. Yeah. I'm not saying that everybody hasn't, at some point, fantasized about their workplace burning to the ground, but, like, if it's actively being sabotaged, you might wanna look into that. So

Eric: Yeah. It might it might be relevant.

Sarah: Yeah. Gerald adds that the clinical truth is she just can't cope with societal change. He looks at his watch and says it's time for them to go, and that he'll fill them in on their next the way to their next encounter group. Laura leans down and asks Steele what's next on the schedule, and he says, oh, everybody's favorite, latent hostility. And for years, I thought this was blatant hostility, which I feel is more accurate in what we see it that actually happening.

That's true. That's what I'm gonna call the glass blatant hostility because it doesn't feel all that latent to me. No. Outside, we see Arthur and Neil arguing, and Laura and and Gerald and Steele kind of, like, see them from a distance. Arthur is telling Neil to shut up, and Neil says, who's going to make me Henderson?

Arthur says, it wouldn't surprise me if he were behind the accidents just to make him look bad. Neil laughs and says, he's deluded. Behind them, Steele Laura, Son sorry. Not Sonia. Sonia's on there.

Gerald are watching them. Arthur tells him he's psychotic, and he and I'll tell you something else. If you if I walk into your classroom, keep my, keep your hands off me. Then Neil says, if you walk into my classroom, you're gonna get snuggled like everyone else. That is the best threat ever.

Eric: Yeah. Actually, it's a pretty good threat, actually.

Sarah: It is. It's just love the way he says it too. Steele wants to intervene, but Gerald stops him. Arthur Snidely says snuggle up to reality. Yeah.

Right. Snuggle up to the best seller list. That's all you've got on your mind. Neil grabs him and pulls his fist back saying, why don't you snuggle up to this? In the original script, he actually threatens to, like, beat him with a shovel, and they switched it to just a punch.

Arthur tells him, go ahead. Hit me. It'll ruin your career. I would love that. Neil considers it and lets him go, saying he's not worth it.

Laura, outraged, points out that he was gonna punch him. Gerald is thrilled. He says, exactly. Still shocked. It's like, aren't you a bit upset?

And Gerald says, upset? What you just witnessed is something beautiful in the original script because it was a shovel. Laura says, what we just witnessed was almost murder in the in this actual script that we get, again, probably better that they tone it down a little bit. Yeah. Because she says, what we just witnessed was us almost assault and battery.

Gerald says, in your layman's point of view, perhaps. He says what he saw was 2 men honestly exploring their true feelings towards 1 another, openly holding nothing back.

Eric: You know, this is a typical example of some overeducated boob taking something and trying to create this justification and rationalization for it when the simple truth of the matter is these people are angry at each other. They don't like each other. It's not some touchy feely feel good thing. Oh, they're working out their hostilities. It's wonderful.

Yeah. Until somebody winds up dead, and then it's, we never saw it coming.

Sarah: Yeah. Exactly. And it also implies that the only time you see men honestly exploring their feelings is when they're angry. Like, that's the only valid emotion that you see because if they were

Eric: It's that's not right.

Sarah: No. I'm it's not right.

Eric: Like Are

Sarah: you sure? Yeah.

Eric: I think it is. I think the only valid emotion for

Sarah: men is anger. But it I mean, I I think society sees it that way, but and and, obviously, Gerald does because he sees this as, like, like you said, the psychobabble. When in reality, it's 2 people that don't like each other that are in like, about to fight. Mhmm. That's, you know, that can happen.

Like, they were honestly exploring their feelings, they might maybe not be sitting in a circle singing Kumbaya, but there might be a little bit more like

Eric: The threats of violence wouldn't be present.

Sarah: Yeah. There might be some more inward self reflection. Like, why do I hate this man so much? Like, you wouldn't maybe verbalize it, but you would maybe wonder, why is this guy getting on my nerves nerves so much? What is it about this person specifically that is making me want

Eric: to punch even express that to that person, but you're not going to say, I'm gonna punch you. I'm gonna take a shovel to your head.

Sarah: Exactly. Yeah. You you

Eric: no. That's not Yeah. Not exploring your feelings. That is letting your feelings run rampant and out of control.

Sarah: Losing control of your feelings, which is a very different thing. Yeah. Yes. So he puts his arm around them and tells them that that's what this place is all about. It's like, okay.

Inside the blatant hostility class, because I'm going to call it from now on, Dolores, the housewife, has a foam bat called a bataka in her hand. And this is what I mean. Okay. This this this here. I have been on board with Maxine up until this point.

The primal shriek, I hear you, girl. I'm with you. Let's get together and scream it out. But this this is horrible. Like, okay.

The it's a foam bat. It's not gonna hurt you. But it's 1 thing to encourage 2 people to air out their frustrations in a private session without a group of onlookers. Okay? Mhmm.

It's another to put a foam bat in their hand and tell them to go at it. Like, that's not a good idea. Like, even if it's not hurting somebody, you're you're normalizing violence within the relationship. Like, yeah, just hit your spouse with your foam bat, and you're you're doing it in a space where everyone's watching you. So, like, it's gonna turn things up to 11 by default.

Eric: But the sweater looks so great on her.

Sarah: The sweater does look fantastic, and I am not denying that as a nice sweater. This whole this whole setup, though, is is, like, really Yeah. From a clinical point of view. Like and I'm not a psychiatrist, but I think any psychiatrist or psychologist would look at this and go, oh god. No.

Why would you do that? But but,

Eric: you know, the thing is I think that there are psychiatrists out there, psychologists, whatever. I'm not sure what the the difference is other than 1 can prescribe drugs and get you addicted and the other 1 can't. I think there are are people out there, so called experts, that would say this is wonderful. This is great.

Sarah: Yeah. I don't I don't think it's I mean, this is this is typical LGAT. This is an LGAT cult tactic 100% because it's breaking these people down. It's pushing to pushing them to the brink, right, to the point where they are at their most emotionally vulnerable, at their most emotionally raw, and that everybody's seeing it and then not giving them the proper aftercare they need to rebuild whatever it is that they that broke, basically.

Eric: Here's the thing. The prop person got these bats from somewhere. These are not from what I can see, these are not something that was created for this episode. No. But I'm sure they're not something that they would buy.

Why do why would they be out there for some people to buy? Because there's people out there saying, this is a good thing. We use these things to express our emotions.

Sarah: You know, you're not wrong because I just Google it. It says batakas are often sold as foam bats or encounter bats are specialized heavily padded therapeutic tools with sturdy handle designed to be safe for safe wait. Let me finish. Safe, silent, and effective emotional releases and somatic work. They're primarily used to express repressed emotions and manage anger.

So, basically, they are it doesn't look like, though, that they're, they absorb hits quietly, making them ideal for use in home homes or offices where noise is a concern. I don't know if they're used to hit your spouse with, though. Like, that's the thing. Don't know if they're used to

Eric: What was the first part of that description for emotional stuff or other?

Sarah: Foam is custom shaped for the to absorb a hit silently. It's especially useful for places where noise is nuisance and regular bats are too loud. Yeah. Okay. So yeah.

I mean, I just think it's a terrible idea to normalize violence in a relationship, but what do I know?

Eric: I didn't say it wasn't a terrible idea. I just said there are people out there that are going to say this is a fantastic idea, and a lot of them have a piece of paper that says they're smart.

Sarah: Yeah. Well, I mean, they're used apparently with kids to know that like, not to hit kids, but for kids to, like, get out their anger in a safe way. And I again, I don't

Eric: By quitting what?

Sarah: Don't know.

Eric: I'm not Other.

Sarah: I'm not saying it's a good idea. No point have I ever said this was a good idea. I'm saying the opposite.

Eric: I I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that when you say that no rational person would recommend this Well, understand. Are people out there who claim to be rational who are recommending this.

Sarah: I gave humanity too much credit, and that would Okay?

Eric: That's right.

Sarah: But either way, we see Dolores who's got the Bataka in her hand, and she is, quote, honestly exploring her feelings towards her husband while hitting him. Yes. She screams, damn you, Warren. All those years working to put you through med school, for what? A slave.

That's all you wanted? Someone to keep your house and raise your kids to hell with any identity of my own. He turns on her and starts hitting her with the botanical saying, what about you? Always complaining. Never there when I need you.

Headaches every night. Again, all of these things are probably valid emotions and issues that are in their relationship.

Eric: This is not the place to discuss

Sarah: it. This is not. This is not. No. And, Maxine urges them both to go for it, and Dolores continues hitting him, yelling, I hate you.

I hate you. I hate you. Until suddenly, she just randomly stops and says, I love you. They kiss passionately.

Eric: I love Steele's reaction. It's it's like a head shake. It's like, how does anybody even buy this stuff? Well, yeah. I believe,

Sarah: and they're well, both of them are kinda watching 1 wondering much like the audience, what the hell just happened? Because there's no way you can just go from I hate you. I hate you. I hate you too. I love you passionate kiss, and you walk off

Eric: to your Like Laura's look is more about confusion and not understanding. Steele's is more about understanding, and it's pathetic.

Sarah: Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. Yeah. So they they walk off together, and the script has a very different fight.

So I wanna I wanna read the the fight in the script first and then talk about, like, what they actually end up doing because I I think the fight in the script, I I don't love it.

Eric: Well, I think there's some good stuff in here. I don't like where it goes. I don't like the fact that it has it does not have the emotional impact of the final version.

Sarah: No. It really

Eric: But I think there's some good stuff in here.

Sarah: So we've got k. So they get to the fight. Laura's she gets them up. She says, I guess we don't have a choice. Do we, Richard?

Eric: Oh, can I can I throw in 1 more thing?

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: That flannel shirt looks good on her.

Sarah: It does. They all look fantastic.

Eric: It's almost as good as a sweater.

Sarah: I agree. And Steele's jacket, I love the jacket he's wearing in his in his episode. Fine. But, no, they both look really good. And, again, they're both dressed very similarly to 1 another.

There's very

Eric: much tons. Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah. And it's like, this is not by accident. I have I've listened to podcasts where they've brought on costume designers and stuff like that, and they make these deliberate choices either for colors or for styles if they want characters to align with other characters or, you know, to not align with other characters. They'll put them in different colors or complementing colors. So this is obviously intentional that they're wearing this clothing that's meant to make them look coupled up.

So, yeah, Maxine tells her to tell Richard what's going through your mind, and she says, oh, not much. I hope the weekend's a success, and I really don't want to upset him. And Maxine says, you've gotta take off the kid gloves. Certainly, there is something about Richard that's burning away at your gut. She says, gut.

I wish he'd take things more seriously. Maxine says, are you really saying you wish he'd take you more seriously? And she says, I like that line.

Eric: And I I like Laura's response here. I think those are good. Yeah. Probably shouldn't be left in.

Sarah: Yeah. I I I I don't disagree with you there. She says, I'm confiding. He doesn't seem to like confiding in me. Sometimes I feel like I don't even know his name.

Come on.

Eric: That okay. That that line was a little over the top. That's Jesus. Everything up to this point, Maxine's comment and Laura's response of, yeah. I guess I am wishing he would take me more seriously and confiding.

He doesn't seem to like confiding in me. Those are good lines. Should've probably should've been left in.

Sarah: Yeah. I don't disagree with that. Maxine says, what a beautifully expressed analogy. And Steele says, it is also, if you pardon the expression, a croc.

Eric: A croc.

Sarah: Which he again, he's not wrong about the whole name thing being a croc, but, like, as an analogy, I mean, not the

Eric: Well, he he's in this particular context of this particular conversation, I think what he's saying is that the idea that he doesn't take her seriously is a croc.

Sarah: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well and then he well, he does reference the name thing because he says that she's got a problem dealing with reality, and she says, what is the reality? And and Laura, yes. What is the reality?

And then Steele says that maybe she doesn't really want want to know who I am.

Eric: And I don't think that's a name thing. I I don't think that's a name thing. I think that is I think in Laura's case, she used the name thing as as Maxine called it, an analogy. But what Steele's talking about here is not the name thing. It's about who I am in my core as a person, you know, my past, my present.

Sarah: It doesn't start out bad. I I I agree with you. This is fine. She says, no. I certainly do not.

I want to know, but he never lets me in. He says, who won't let whom in? And she says, admit it. I'm the 1 who's worked the hardest to keep our marriage going. And then he says, naturally, how else are you gonna call all the shots?

And then she says, is that what you think? You jerk. And then she hits him, I guess, a little shove with the. And then Maxine says a love tap lure. Is that all the hostility you're feeling?

And then she

Eric: hits the again. I think this, exchange here about how how else are you gonna call all the shots and is that what you think, I think those are consistent with the characters as we know them at this point. I I don't think they're necessarily good for this particular

Sarah: No. That's the thing. I don't think

Eric: they fit But they they are they do fit the And

Sarah: then she says, all you ever care about is yourself. And I don't honestly think she feels that about him.

Eric: Like, I don't That's the point of these things is to get you to provoke you to say things that and and they're gonna say, well, we're just trying to get down to your deepest feelings. But they're what they're really trying to do is provoke you into saying something that you really don't mean for the sake of creating conflict so that they can step in and try and we're going to I'm a hero because I am solving the conflict between you. Aren't I fantastic?

Sarah: I don't disagree with you. I just think that we see in the actual conversation that Laura does end up hitting below the belt, and so does he. Right. But their hits below the belt feel more like, they make more sense organic. Whereas her just saying, like, randomly shouting out, all you ever care about is yourself.

Yeah. That doesn't feel that doesn't feel organic to her. Like, that doesn't feel like something that she's ever accused him of

Eric: not caring. Say that the the argument in the script that we have, which is an older version of the script, obviously. Yeah. Some of the individual lines themselves totally fit the characters

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: Their their feelings, their situation. What doesn't fit is the sequence and taking and mashing them all together because there's so much it's just like we're gonna grab something from here. We're gonna grab something

Sarah: from here.

Eric: We're gonna grab something from there and throw them all in a bowl and mix it up and see what comes out.

Sarah: Yeah. And it it it it doesn't feel like an actual argument either because when you fight with somebody, they say 1 thing. You say another thing. It goes in the direction of the fight. It goes in the direction of the thing.

This feels like they're just randomly, like you said, throwing out insults at each other that don't connect. Mhmm. And because he turns around and says, all you wanna do is dominate me. And then Maxine says, what else is he, Laura? And she says, dishonest.

And he says, I'm dishonest just because you can't make a commitment. And then Maxine says, why can't Laura make And he says, because she's afraid I'll leave her like her father left her mother like that. Wow. That feels again again, he says this

Eric: in actual left field in this context.

Sarah: But it's in yeah. But in the in the fight they do have in the actual episode, it feels organic because she's bringing up all this stuff, and and not that it feels he knows he's gone too far when he says it Mhmm. Even though he doubles down on it. But here, it just feels like he's pulling out whatever he can to hurt her, and I'm like, oh. And then Gordon says, way to go, Richard.

Give it to him, Laura. She says you need my

Eric: In the actual argument, that line, I'm not your father, how is it that he says it exactly?

Sarah: I'm not your father. I'm not the man who left your mother.

Eric: Yeah. Is that is the mic drop moment in your argument as it fit because that is that is the high point. That is the culmination. That is the explosion that destroys everything. Whereas in the script version, it's just like, it's a bump in the road.

Sarah: Yeah. She says, you keep my parents out of this. He says, face it, Laura. That's the bottom line. She calls him a hypocrite.

She says, you keep me dangling on a on a string for almost 4 years. You have the nerve to talk about commitment. I'll bottom line you, which, ugh, that's just terrible. He says, Laura, stop it. She says, no.

You stop. Stop playing games with me. You don't wanna commit because you don't have to admit it. Fame, fortune, career, me. You've got everything you want.

No strings attached. The perfect con.

Eric: Why buy the cow when you get the milk for free?

Sarah: Yeah. And again, like, this is this is something that she could say that's hurtful, but I don't think it's I don't think it's quite as hurtful as what she ends up saying in the actual argument. And it and not that I want her to be hurtful, but it feels more raw in the actual argument. Yes. This is just like, oh, it's just a con.

You your our relationship is a con. He says, you mean that, don't you? Of course, she does, and he walks away. That's not near like, what they end up what they ended up with. And I'm glad that someone decided, okay.

We're gonna retool this because in the actual episode, you see, Maxine, we

Eric: should back in time to the start of the point.

Sarah: We are going back. Sorry. I just I wanted to read that out loud because it just felt so different. And I Yes.

Eric: It is. It's totally different.

Sarah: What they changed it to because she she after Dolores and Warren go off and apparently wedded bliss, Maxine picks up the bats and says that that was a perfect example of how the Bataqa is a tool that can turn bitter hostility into feeling good about each other. She says, who's next? And Laura and Steele both, they do that classic thing that students do when they don't wanna be picked. They look down. You know?

Yeah.

Eric: Not me. Not me. That's

Sarah: that's why she picks them. Yeah. She goes to hand steal the Metaka, and she says she gets the feeling that he doesn't quite buy into theory that hostility is the soul mate to intimacy. And still grins and says, on the contrary, he's often felt quite hostile towards his lovely, partner here. Which is that's funny.

Maxine grins and says, it's time to stop procrastinating, and let's get exacerbating. She pulls them into the circle as they both protest, and Laura tells and tells Laura to tell Richard what's going through her mind. Even Laura looks uncomfortable here at being put Oh, yeah. The spot. Right?

She looks at Maxine and says she wonders why he has so much trouble discussing their relationship. And this feels more organic because that's been what's going on through the rest of the entire episode. Right? She goes to sit down. Maxine pulls her back.

She hands her the Batoka, she says, you need to get rid of these kid gloves. She turns her towards Steele and asks her to tell Richard exactly what it is that's eating in her gut. And, again, like, is taking stuff that has some legitimacy, but, like, twisting it around. You get people like Keith Ranieri because, like, that's what he did. He he broke people down.

But so, yeah. Laura, she, looks at Maxine, rather than at Steele, and holding the Mataka says she doesn't know how they can advance the relationship if he won't tell her how he feels. And, again, that feels more organic to what's going on between them in this episode. She's been trying to get that communication between them. Maxine looks at Steele and agrees with Laura.

So that's an excellent point. Steele is getting angry now, and he's angry because he's also being put on the spot. And also, I mean, partly, but also he's angry because he, in his mind, and I I I think there's some legitimacy to both of their feelings here. Mhmm. Still feels that she doesn't understand him.

After 4 years, she still doesn't understand how he shows affection, how he shows that he cares about her, how he how he's demonstrated his commitment to her. Right? So that when he says he says, it's also, if you'll pardon the expression, a croc, Maxine moves over to him, and she do I detect trace of annoyance here, Richard?

Eric: Yeah. Steele You think?

Sarah: Steele says his and again, he hesitates on the word wife. Obviously, has problems dealing with reality. Laura sarcastically says, Maxine asked what the reality is, and Steele says that he's been trying to advance this relationship for quite some time. Maxine turns to Laura, says, do you buy into that? Laura says, she certainly does not.

She says the only advancement he's talking about is into the bedroom. She wants more than a roll in the hay. And this is where she's kind of dropped their cover a little bit here because Yeah. Can you honestly tell me that a newlywed couple has not slept together?

Eric: Well, in theory in theory, which what she's done is expressed that in their marriage, all he wants is a roll in the hay.

Sarah: Yeah. That's fair. I guess it just but it's a bit

Eric: of it. Quite frankly, she did drop the curtain here. She did reveal the the man behind the screen. But, yeah, what people are going to take from it in this context is that he's not emotionally there. All he's interested in is the physical part of their relationship, and and that's it.

Yeah.

Sarah: Fair enough. Yeah. So she Steele says, oh, we're back to that again. Are we, Laura? He says, is aren't you tired of having the same argument, or is it the setting that makes it different?

London, economical, camp. It is a good line. It is a good line. Like, he has some points here. Both of them do, I think.

Because, like, Laura is obviously the kind of person who needs to be told how somebody feels. Like, she's and and these are both stemming from trauma. Both of them. Both of them are reacting from the traumas of their past. In Laura's case, she needs to hear him say, I'm staying.

I wanna be here. I'm not going to leave. Needs to hear him say that he that. Like, okay. Needs to he needs to feel appreciated and cared for.

And for him, he doesn't trust words. Words have let him down. So

Eric: when Okay. Fine. You're gonna drag it out of me, aren't you?

Sarah: Well, okay. No. We'll we'll we'll we'll get there. I'll I'll we'll pause it. I'll get there.

But, like Okay. When he says that to her, like, he's pointing out, like, we've had this. This is cyclical. We're keep going around and around in circles. We're not solving anything, and that's valid.

Eric: Yes. Got a

Sarah: good point. He's got a point. I do like Maxine. She's, like, encouraging him, and he's, like, shut up. You stay on this.

Eric: She's, like, oh, that's that's great too.

Sarah: She just bags off. She's wonderful.

Eric: And she says, oh, that's wonderful. Now you're taking your hastily name out on me. This is fantastic.

Sarah: And Steele adds that she wants to talk all the time because she's afraid to do anything else. Ouch. Yeah. Laura, enraged. That's where she hits them and says, you're the 1 who's afraid, afraid of being pinned down, staying in the same place.

She hits them again. Maxine tells Laura, she's with you. Or we're with you, Laura. Laura hits her, too. I how they both kinda turn on Maxine here.

Steele shouts that he wants to have she she wants to have complete control. That's why Maxine encourages Steele to get all that pile out. Tell her like it really is. He shakes her off. And, again, I I think they're both making really valid points here.

Mhmm. Laura is pointing out that he is he is scared. There is a there is a fear element that Steele is operating under. 100%. Mhmm.

However, she is trying to control everything, and that's always been a problem. She's trying to control the fact that he's scared by demanding him that he make sweeping declarations, and he's resistant to being controlled because anybody would be. Nobody wants to be told how to feel or told to tell them how to like, you can't demand love. You can't demand, you know, you need to say this. Here's the script, and you need to say it.

Like, that doesn't work. So Laura says, you feel compelled to dominate me physically because deep down, you're intimidated by anyone with a half a brain now. I kinda disagree on this 1.

Eric: This is the only line. Point out that up to this point, we've actually hit everything that was in the original script.

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: All the points that were in the original script, we have just hit them all. The difference is

Sarah: How they're said?

Eric: How they're how the sequence, how they're said, just the whole construction of it up to this point. Yeah. No difference in in terms of the points that are being made, just how it's constructed. This is an example of really somebody taking an idea, a rough idea, and just really just polishing the crap out of it until it shines. Like like a like a Yeah.

A moose pellet.

Sarah: Sorry. The only part I the only part I disagree with on on the line that she has here that they kept word for word from the original script Mhmm. Is that I don't think he's trying to dominate her.

Eric: But that's how she feels.

Sarah: I don't know if she's ever felt like he's pushing, but I don't think he's trying to dominate. And okay, maybe that maybe she does feel that, but I always

Eric: I don't Maybe it's also just a situation of because of this environment and the provoking that's going on with vaccine, that's the word that she chose. And if she thought better about it in a different context, different situation, if she wasn't being poked and prodded and and urged to go, you know, to the extreme and over the top even

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: She wouldn't have chosen that word. She would've chosen something else.

Sarah: Well and then she says because deep down, you're intimidated by anyone any woman with half a brain. I don't think she's ever thought that about him. I really don't.

Eric: No. But, again, it's it's this is the situation that we're in. We're trying to provoke you.

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: We're going to try to provoke you to like I said before, provoke you to say things that you really don't mean so that we can create a problem that we can then solve and make ourselves look like heroes because we solved the problem that we created.

Sarah: Yeah. I know. I just and this is the only line I have an issue with because it feels to me that they've written Laura to say this line because they want Steele to say the next line.

Eric: The next line. Yeah.

Sarah: Partly. Because I don't think I honestly don't feel at any point in the series have we ever seen Laura feel that he's intimidated by smart women. Like, he he he yes. Does he sometimes gravitate to the ditzy blondes? Sure.

But

Eric: But that's not necessarily intimidation.

Sarah: No. And he wouldn't be with Laura. He he she knows that he's attracted to her because she's smart. He knows that he likes that. He liked that about Felicia too.

Yeah. So that 1 feels like it's just put there because they need Steele to say the next line, which says how he says half a brain that's right. The only half you use is for thinking. What about the part for feeling? That's the part I'm interested in.

And that feels like an organic thing for him to say that he's needing this reassurance, this physical reassurance, and not necessarily just sex, although that's part of it because sex is part of a a relationship, and it's an important part of a relationship. He's feeling rejected on a physical level. Every time that he tries to get close to her, she's pushing away. And that is that's gotta wear on you. Like

Eric: I'm gonna throw you in home improvement here because there's an episode in home improvement where Tim and Jill are having a conflict. And I don't remember the context of it, but they're having this conflict. And it's kinda in some ways, it's like this because she's trying to get him they they went they I think it was. They went to a sensitivity thing.

Sarah: Oh, no. See? You never go to a sensitivity spot. That's that's the

Eric: lesson to take away. And they're back at home in their room talking, and she's she wants to hear what he feels. And he says she asked him, what's if there's 1 thing you could change about our our relationship, what would it be? And his comment is, you know, maybe have a little more sex, you know, more than once a month. And she says, well, but I can't I can't feel intimate unless I or I I I can't how is it she puts it?

Something along the lines of, I don't feel like having a sexual relationship when I don't feel emotionally emotionally connected to you? And his response is, I can't feel emotionally connected to you if we're not having sex. And there that's not exactly the way it's put. But I mean and and, of course, it's not that's not really technically true, but there is an element of that because men do equate physical intimacy with emotional intimacy and women equate physical yeah. The men need the sex to be emotionally connected.

The women need the emotional connection to be sexually connected.

Sarah: And I think I mean, if you if even if you back away from, like, men and women specifically Mhmm. And I don't know that I put a lot of stock in this because I this feels like another pseudoscientific bunch of claptrap, but the quote unquote idea of love languages. Right? The idea of how some people have have you you've heard that theory?

Eric: I've heard the term. I'm not So real familiar with it.

Sarah: There's the I think there's 5 love languages according to this relationship expert or this theory of relationship experts, and the 5 love the 5 love languages are acts of service, receiving gifts, quality time, words of affirmation, and physical touch. And so acts of service would be basically steal. Right? This is a love language where actions speak louder than words. Basically, like how what you're doing for somebody taking care of their their physical and environmental needs, right?

A partner who identifies with this love language appreciates being shown through their partner's actions how much they're cared for. Some of these actions include things like taking something off their plate, going out of their way to do something for them, household chores, taking the kids to school. Anything that basically says, I care about you could be an act of service. For some people, 1 of the other ones is receiving gifts. They feel most special when they're receiving heartfelt physical representations of how much a person loves you.

It doesn't have to be something expensive. It's more about a symbol of like, I thought of you and here it is. So it could be like a chocolate bar that they like or whatever. Right? Quality time is another 1.

So people that have that love language feel like it's about prioritizing their time together, giving your partner your attention, connecting on an emotional level, listening, being engaged. So these are people that want to schedule like time together to do something fun, go out to dinner, watch a movie, whatever words of affirmation would be Laura, right? So 1 way to define words of affirmation would be the words of appreciation of words of praise, any sort of verbal or written communication that shows your partner how much they are loved and why. Think about how to give somebody words of affirmation that are about their being, that have to do with their personal qualities, the things this person brings, how generous they are, how kind they are, how much they love them. How

Eric: frugal they are.

Sarah: Sure. And then physical touch. And I think physical touch would go with acts of service, right? Because Steele is doing acts of service, but for him, he needs physical touch. So, like, it's not just about what you need, what you give, it's about what you need as well.

So I think Steele is showing his care for her by, you know, doing the the acts of service. Laura needs words of affirmation. Steele needs physical touch. So for people that have that love language, it says using your body to express connection and love. Things beyond just sexual intimacy, making an act active effort to hold hands, hug, kiss, snuggle on the couch, give a massage, anything else that your partner enjoys in terms of physical touch.

So, like

Eric: I'm not gonna say that those things are are inaccurate. They they sound like they're they're I think they're very simple. Good information. Yeah. I would take exception to the notion if that's part of what's being taught here that everybody has 1 of those.

Sarah: Yeah. That's what I mean by

Eric: it's being simplified. This this is you. Yeah. And then you don't have any of the rest of it. No.

No. Well, if that's the case, then you've got a problem because you should have all of them. Everybody should have all of them. You are going to be stronger in 1.

Sarah: 100%.

Eric: But if if if the notion is that you have this, this is the only way that you can communicate, and you have absolutely no understanding of the others, that's incorrect. You may not have a good understanding of the others because you don't know, those are not your strong suits. And that I would would agree with because Yeah. People and we see this in education. Kids have different ways of learning.

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. I don't get me started. Don't get me started. That's a funny podcast.

So,

Eric: I mean, this type of thing applies in a lot of different areas, but but you can't say, well, it's this exclusively for this person to the exclusion of everything else.

Sarah: Well, that's my point. They're they're oversimplified, and they're used in a very simplified way. Like, I and I also think that, like you said, if you're not in touch with all of them, then you're not like, just because you need this particular thing doesn't mean you should forget that your partner might need something else. Mhmm. Right?

So I think that's the problem between Steele and Laura. They are both needing different things, but they're also not giving what the other person needs. And and it's really spelled out really well in this fight because they literally want the same thing here. He says, what about the part for feeling? That's the part I'm interested.

That's what Laura's interested in too, but neither 1 of them is able to communicate it properly to the other in a way that the other person needs to hear it. Yeah. And and it's

Eric: In way that they best understand.

Sarah: Yeah. So, like and then Laura shoots back with the only part you're interested in it is a little lower than the brain. She hits him again. He hasn't hit her once at this point with the Metaka. Mhmm.

I think that's worth noting that he has held off on whacking her with it. He does eventually.

Eric: But Well, that's because he's she's she's being emotional, and he's trying to be trying to be rational in the conversation. He's not doing a very good job of it, but he's not letting his emotions come out in physical form.

Sarah: Well, because that's, again, societally 1 thing that is Yeah. You don't hit a girl. That is drilled into because, like and and I'm not saying she should be hitting him. I personally think this exercise is is awful. I think anybody that hits a spouse, that's abusive.

The difference, though, is that if 1 person is 6 foot something and the other person is 5 foot nothing, there is a power imbalance there, and that's when things become dangerous. Right? But, like, I don't think anybody should be hitting

Eric: But by the same token, if if it doesn't matter which person is doing the the hitting. Even if it's the 5 foot 0 person, you know, becoming physically abusive of the 6 foot 7 person, that 6 foot person needs to do something to defend themselves at some point.

Sarah: I I mean, I'm just saying, like, for example, like, to take a parent and child situation here. Right? Like, if your kid who's a lot smaller, a lot weaker than you starts, like, going to town, like, a tantrum and starts hitting you, you don't haul off and belt them back. You restrain them. You do what you can to physically keep them from hurting you, but you don't, like, you know, return fire, so to speak, if you're the bigger person physically.

And I think that a lot of relationships that turn towards abuse, if the smaller person, and it could be a woman that's the man that's the smaller person, if you've got a larger, larger lady, has more physical power than their primary job would be to just restrain or get away from them because that's you know, rather than, like, well, you hit me, so now I get to beat the crap out of you. It's

Eric: Yeah. Well, I mean Yeah. Even even even in a situation where a person in defense of themselves does use physical force beyond just pushing them back or restraining them, you you still got to to remember there's a line there that you don't cross.

Sarah: For sure. That's yeah. And I it was just a note that I had because I was watching this. I'm like, hey. Well, he hasn't hit her yet.

She's she's bobbed him on the head. And to be fair, they're they're foam bats, so they're not doing any damage, but still, it's it's aching.

Eric: It's it's the symbolic

Sarah: nature. Yeah. So Nancy yells, that's the way Laura and her and her husband yells, give it to her, Richard, which okay.

Eric: This person There's another fight starting.

Sarah: Yeah. She needs 2 sheets of paper. Something tells me that that's not gonna be the case later on night. Yeah.

Eric: No. Something tells me that it was never the case.

Sarah: And I think this is where Steele finally loses his composure completely because he's yelling. He says, how many more tests do I have to pass? How many more trials do I have to go through to show my commitment? This is valid. This is fair.

This is his, like they he's he's really feeling and and has a right to feel that she has not seen any of what he's done for the last 4 years. Like, the fact that he stayed, the fact that he continues to stay. And not just that he continues to stay, but he continues to fight to stay. The fight to stay with his passport. The the fight to like, when he when he's accused and forged and, like, everything that he's gone through to stick with her, even after they broke up in season 3, he stuck around.

He didn't leave. He could've left. But Yeah. So, like, this is, like, that moment where he loses his crap, and she says, you don't know the meaning of the word. And that's when he hits her with the.

Yeah. And she hits him back, and then he says, what he says, what do you think I've been doing? What do you think I've been going through for the last 3 and a half years? Don't you think that's a commitment? And she hits him again and says a commitment needs words.

And I'm guessing this is where we jump in with the the the deeds versus words because this is quite literally their entire relationship boiled down to those 2 pieces of communication that both of them are.

Eric: Let's go a couple more lines.

Sarah: Okay. Because she says a commitment needs words, and he says, what about deeds? And then she says, what about words? I just we're getting there. These communication styles, this is where it's at.

Right? He says, you'll never be satisfied because you're living in the past. I'm not your father. I'm not the man who left your mother.

Eric: Okay. I'll go ahead

Sarah: and bring it more weight. This Yes. Before you do that.

Eric: More than

Sarah: This line has way more weight here

Eric: Than it did in the original.

Sarah: It would have in the original, for sure.

Eric: Absolutely. Now I'm gonna say Laura is a dichotomy here because here she's what about words? What about words? Commitment needs words. And yet for the last 3 and a half years, her big hang up has been what Steele says here.

I'm not the man who left your mother. What he could also have added is, I'm not Wilson. I'm not the man who left you. Laura and and Steele brings this up later in the in the in the tag, and and that's where I actually had it originally in my notes. Right.

Steele says, where I come from, I learned to read people by what they did, not what by what they said. There were too many traps in that. And Laura should know this because her father told her her mother at some point he loved her, and then he left. At some point, he told Laura, he loves her, and then he left. Wilson, at some point, told her, he loves her, and then he left.

Why is Laura so hung up about words when she shouldn't be? She knows good and well that the the the words have been a trap every single time that she's lost a man in her life. There are too many traps in that. She should be all about the the deeds, all about the functional commitment beyond the words. But she has turned that into I need the words.

I don't understand that, Laura. You you're you're you're inconsistent on that. You should be wanting the deeds, not the words.

Sarah: I think it's it's about

Eric: actually should be be almost wanting the words more than the deeds. It should almost be reversed here.

Sarah: See, I think it for her, it's about not necessarily about hearing him say, love you. I think it's more about hearing him say, I won't leave you. And not just I won't leave you, but I won't leave you the way they left because

Eric: Everything everybody told her in the past about commitments in relationships has been a lie. Every every man that she had in her life who expressed love and commitment in some some manner verbally lied about it.

Sarah: Right. But I don't think I don't think they ever outright promised not to leave her. Like, I don't because it wouldn't come up. Think about Well,

Eric: that's what I mean, tell death do us part. I mean Well

Sarah: but she's not married.

Eric: But her mother and father were, and he that wasn't good enough for them. And so she didn't wanna do that with Wilson, but presumably, at some point, he he expressed a desire to stay with her. I mean, that's what Right. But That's what people do. I love you, you know, till the end of time.

Sarah: Hey. But divorce happens all the time. It doesn't mean a parent disappears off the face of the planet, and that's what happened with her dad. Right? So I

Eric: thought what happened with Wilson too. I mean, when we saw him, she hadn't obviously hadn't seen him in a long time. There had been no contact.

Sarah: Well, why wouldn't she?

Eric: Should be as much or more interested in the deeds than words. Certainly

Sarah: Well, far more. So follow me on this, though. Because, like, I don't think it's so much about, like, with her parents. Okay? Parents rarely ever have to say to their kids, or they shouldn't have to say to their kids, I am not going to leave you.

I'm always going to be here. That's, I think, sort of implied. Right? And if a divorce does happen, theoretically, a good parent would say, okay. I'm not with your your mother or your father anymore, but I'm not going anywhere.

I'm still gonna be in your life.

Eric: But is that also implied when a a a man and a woman get married or even when a man and a woman move in together?

Sarah: But let me let me let me finish. Okay? So her dad obviously never said those things to her. He obviously never said, even after they divorced, I'm not going anywhere. He never promised her, I'm still gonna be here.

He just disappeared. And I'm gonna guess that Wilson probably the same thing happened. Probably that they moved in together, but they never had she never had that commitment where he said, I'm going to marry you, and I'm I'm like, this is till death do his part. I'm gonna guess that he never gave her that that verbal reassurance, that verbal security that she has never had. And that when they broke up, he was gone and and so was her dad.

And neither 1 of them gave her what she needed to hear, that that promise that they kept.

Eric: But both men lied to their significant other, their spouse, or, you know, however you wanna label it, with the smaller words of I love you. That was a lie.

Sarah: I don't think it was.

Eric: Why they probably they believe the bigger lie? Why why why should you give credence to the bigger lie of I will never leave you if you can't even stand by the smaller lie of I love you?

Sarah: I don't think the smaller lie was a lie when it when it was told. I think people fall out of love. I think her parents probably did love each other, and I think she

Eric: was probably words still don't mean anything in the long run. What matters is the commitment in the long run, the g in the long run, the the this I'm sticking with you through hell or high water. That's what

Sarah: matters in

Eric: the long run.

Sarah: She's asking him to say that. She's asking him to acknowledge that

Eric: He's demonstrated it time and time again.

Sarah: I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm She

Eric: should be wanting those things demonstrated more than she wants the words.

Sarah: I I think she wants I think what she wants is for him to verbally acknowledge that he understands her insecurities and that he's not going to be that person. I think she needs him to say, I'm not going to be your father. I'm not going to be Wilson. That's what Again,

Eric: the words are meaningless in in the context

Sarah: of her her

Eric: life history, and they're meaningless.

Sarah: I think they're more meaningful if you refuse to give them. If you outright refuse to say them, then that tells that would tell me as a person, like, you're not even willing to do the smallest thing and say, obviously, I love you, and I'm not going anywhere. Right? Like,

Eric: it it almost destroyed the argument that people use for moving in and living together as opposed to getting married.

Sarah: Well, but

Eric: If you're not willing to do this little thing

Sarah: Well, no. I mean, some people don't have valid reasons not to wanna get married, but that's but that comes down to

Eric: People have valid reasons not to say the words too.

Sarah: But what I'm saying here is that she has told him and and, again, I'm not discounting his because I I I think he has valid what he's saying is valid too. But for her, she has told him time and again that she is insecure about everything that's happened and that she wants him to reassure her that he's not leaving, and he has not said the things that she wants him to say. Right? She's not asking for marriage. She has at no point has she said, I want you to marry me.

She said, I need you to tell me that you're not going anywhere. And and and it's not even so much the words themselves. It's the fact that he won't give them. Right? Like, it's it's literally

Eric: give them or he's afraid to give them.

Sarah: Well, that's

Eric: what she doesn't understand. How Yes. She has constantly berated him over his lack of commitment.

Sarah: I don't think it's I don't think that's why he's afraid. It's he's afraid because of everything he's gone through, but because he's not as verbal about his own past and never has been, she doesn't really fully understand the fear that he's operating under until the end, that tag scene that you mentioned, right, where he says there are too many traps in that. I think that's where she finally understands, oh, this isn't about me. This is about him. This isn't about him refusing or not wanting to reassure me.

This is about him being scared because for him, he's probably the thing is he's like, the words are the lies. The actions are what matters. And, yes, she's seen that too, but she's wanting she's been upfront about it's it's more about how, like, women are what you're saying, women are more able to articulate their trauma and able to articulate emotionally what she's going through. She said to him, like, I am needing this reassurance. This is what I need.

And he doesn't know right now. He's he doesn't know how to say what he needs. He's trying. It's just not coming out right. You know?

Eric: I I still find it frustrating and manic that she is so insistent on the words when the words have let her down so often in the past.

Sarah: They have, but not giving them is, I think, the more important thing here. The fact that he's

Eric: If the words are going to let you down

Sarah: Well, but if that's

Eric: What does it matter if they don't give them? They would be lies anyway, at least in in the context of your history.

Sarah: But then you can never

Eric: trust point.

Sarah: But then you can never trust anybody ever. Like, there's no way

Eric: you can Exactly. She doesn't trust anybody.

Sarah: But she's wanting to, and she's telling him, wanna trust you. I wanna be there. I want to be in this relationship. All I need is for you to promise me this. And even if he lets her down, that show of, like, vulnerability, that that willingness to give her what he's scared to give her, I think, would be that thing that she needs to see.

Eric: Lie to me, and I'll believe anything you say.

Sarah: I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that Wilson was never emotionally vulnerable. I we don't know much about the relationship, but we get the impression that he was very much what she thought she wanted. Right? That predictable, like, he he was the actions guy. He was the 1 that she put her trust in terms of actions.

Right? He was the guy that was supposed to be stable, predictable, the guy that doesn't leave. And he probably showed her that every day with his stable job, stable personality, punctuality, predictability.

Eric: I'm done.

Sarah: I'm done. I'm done. But he ultimately let her down. He let her down, and her dad was the same. Her dad had a stable job.

Her dad theoretically had a stable marriage. They had what looked to be a perfect household. He walked away. She's got this unpredictable maverick of a character who has never stayed in 1 place. She knows he's never stayed in 1 place.

She just wants to hear him say, I'm gonna stay in 1 place, and he won't. And that's causing that fear. It's not a fair fear because as you pointed out, he has shown her in other ways, but it's irrational fears are irrational for a reason. Right? And he has his own fears.

She won't physically connect with him. It's not just about sex. For him, it's about feeling cared about. She won't do it. He's he's tried everything under the sun, including fabricating a case to get them in a hotel together to to try to feel like she cares about him.

If you think about it, when he was a kid, how often do you think he got hugged?

Eric: Probably never.

Sarah: Right? How often do you

Eric: think when they were putting on a show for the Yeah. The child services person.

Sarah: How often do you think he was told by the adults around him that that he would or or shown any physical affection whatsoever? Probably never. Right? And and and and or friends or any physical affection that he did receive as an adult came with strengths because it was typically part of a con or, you know, there wasn't any real feeling there. So for him, like, you could argue that he can't trust actions either because actions let you down.

But people are complicated.

Eric: Are are you done?

Sarah: I'm done. Anyway but he he does like, when he says, I'm not your father. I'm not the man who left her who left your mother. That's

Eric: That is the bombshell right there. The the way that this was revised.

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah. That makes it just

Sarah: It's perfect.

Eric: Yeah. And and it doesn't carry forward with energy like the original 1 does. Yeah. All of a sudden, it's just all the energy is sucked out of the room.

Sarah: It deflates it. It feels like a physical blow. He he it's not like, it it hurts probably more than the Mataka ever could because Yeah.

Eric: And she Her the way she says the comet is Yeah. Just it's crushed. You leave my family out of this.

Sarah: Yeah. And here's the thing. He's not wrong. He's not wrong. Not the man.

He's not that person that she's putting these things onto. She's putting it onto all of all of the past people that have let her down. She's putting that onto him, and that's not fair.

Eric: Mhmm.

Sarah: But to say it the way that way to her in front of all these people, to lay out her trauma in front of everybody, raw and bare and and, like, just, like, just a raw nerve. Mhmm. That's not gonna go well for her. Because if they had been in private and and if they had been having a a a more emotionally connected conversation and

Eric: he's a qualified counselor, maybe.

Sarah: Yeah. Or just even alone where he maybe, like, touched her and said, listen, I know what you're I know what you're scared of. I know that your your father let you down. I know Wilson let you down. I'm not them.

That would come across as reassuring and loving. This comes across as this is your problem. And and I don't know think he meant it that way. He did not mean it that way, but it's how she hears it, and it hurts. It's like a like, it hurts.

Eric: But, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna say maybe, and and, I'll get a lot of hate from somebody for this. So be kind. Yes. I'm talking to you, Sarah. Maybe maybe if it had been a more rational, calm, reasoned conversation, it wouldn't have been as effective.

Sarah: No. I agree with you. You're not gonna get any pushback on that from me. 1000%. Wow.

Eric: I was afraid I was gonna get No.

Sarah: Know? Because if they had had the 1. No. If they had been having calm, rational, reasoned explanations all the way up to this point, the fight wouldn't have happened like this in at all. The fact that they haven't been having these conversations is what has led to this, and he needed to say this.

As as hurtful as it is, this needed to be said out loud because he's avoided saying it, and it's not gotten either of them anywhere. She says you leave my family out of this.

Eric: And in a sense, it's it's good that it was said in anger Yeah. Because that that's what he's feeling. He's angry that she is treating him as if he you know, the same thing. And so if he had said it calmly in emotion or in without this anger of emotion

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: It would have been, oh, you're just saying that.

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, this is this is they needed to have this fight.

This fight needed to happen. They needed to get raw with 1 another because they've been avoiding it.

Eric: Just maybe not in front of other people.

Sarah: Exactly. Not not in a room filled with spectators, but it's not a spectator sport. But, no. This needed to happen because then he she says, leave my family out of this, and he I don't love the way, like, literally screams in our face. I feel like this could have been dialed back a little bit in terms of, like it comes across as, why?

There's a watch out in between. Like, it's a little

Eric: He's he's finally let himself get emotional about this. I mean, was holding back the first half of it, 2 2 thirds of it, and he's finally gotten the emotion where it it's it's he's letting it out. And this is still was No. May not be fair, but this is still the

Sarah: emotion he's feeling. Like, I'm not talking about that. I'm just talking about from a visual standpoint. It looks really awkward.

Eric: Oh.

Sarah: I I I think, like, it would have made more sense from an acting point standpoint if he had been, like, still yelling, but maybe turned away and said, why? Where are the ones standing between us? Like, instead, he's, like, right in her face. Her hair's blowing backwards because he's yelling. You know what I mean?

It just kinda looks awkward. It doesn't it doesn't look I don't know. Her volume level is here and his volume level is here and then just visually watching it happen. It's like, okay. But but no, I agree with you.

He's let go. He's he's finally saying what he feels and he should be. Right? He says they're the ones standing between us. She fires back.

The only 1 staying between us is you, and he says, no. It isn't. And I like the way he says it this so rapid fire because he's, like, just spewing out his, like, all of his feelings. Right? It's you.

It's you and your bloody little and ambitious. What do I need to get through to you? Right? And and that's that's fair. That's pure raw frustration.

Right? Your inhibitions, your issues. And then she says more than a wink and a tumble, and that's where she starts yelling. So now it feels more balanced volume wise, at least. Right?

And then he says, you are the most ridiculous woman I've ever met. And she says, get out. What are you waiting for? And this is what she's been expecting. This is the self fulfilling prophecy.

This is what Mhmm. Like

Eric: She creates the problem and then blames everybody else for it.

Sarah: Well, I'm not even saying, like, it's it's a you create it's this is the point where she's and this isn't fair. I'm not saying it's fair. Okay? No. No.

It isn't unfair, but this is this is how like, this is a trauma response. This is I'm going to push him to the brink. And if he comes back, then I can trust him.

Eric: No. This isn't push him to the brink. I'm going to shove him off the edge because she says, get out of here. Yeah. I don't want you here.

Fine. I'll give as the character that Brosnan played in laws of attraction, He says Oh, I

Sarah: haven't seen that movie in a minute.

Eric: I'm going to give you what you want.

Sarah: But she doesn't want that. And this is my point where like, I'm not saying it's fair. I I I don't agree with this this tactic. I'm saying this is often a response that you see come from people who have been through a trauma or

Eric: have I'm going to give you what you say you want.

Sarah: Yeah. Well, but what I'm saying is what she's doing, k, is this is a this is a test. And, again, I'm not saying it's fair. Mhmm. But this is her way of, like, okay.

I'm gonna tell him to leave. If he loves me, he'll come back.

Eric: That's called harassment. That's called sulking.

Sarah: No. I'm this is okay. So from somebody who

Eric: I said no, and you didn't accept it.

Sarah: This is I mean, this is if you wanna, like, look at an ADHD perspective, this is like that rejection piece. Right? That that feeling of any criticism is a rejection. So therefore, I'm going to push this person to the point where they would rejection, like, where they would reject me. And if they come back, then clearly, like, they they love you.

This is rejection sensitive dysphoria.

Eric: No. If they come back, they're lying to you.

Sarah: Okay. But That's

Eric: Okay. I'm I'm just saying, no. That's that's

Sarah: That's how she's feeling, though. And, again, I'm not saying it's fair. I'm saying, though, that it she's trying to see just how far she can push him and have him stay because everybody else has given up. She like, I've done this. I I'm not proud of it, but I've done it.

Like, I've I've had, you know, arguments with Scott where I've been like, okay. I'm gonna leave the room, and he's gonna follow me. And if he follows me, it means he cares. If he doesn't follow me, then he doesn't care because I've had instances in my past where they haven't followed me. They haven't they've they haven't cared.

Right? So for her and, again, it's not a fair response. It's not fair to push your partner like that.

Eric: Most of the time. You the if the guy

Sarah: follows fulfilling prophecy.

Eric: If the guy well, no. But if the guy follows, then it's, I told you I don't want to. They shove him again. They they they push him away with if you know, based on your theory here that they're they're hoping that they come back. But then when they do, they say, I told you.

I don't want you here. They they push them again.

Sarah: I mean, not everybody. Pushing. Because that's usually what I what I do want is them to come back. Right? And and if you watch like, I don't know if you've ever seen this random, have you ever seen the movie Prancer?

It's a Christmas Okay. Keeping with my Christmas movie theme of, like, I like the movies that are sad and not happy. This is a movie about a little kid whose mother has died. Okay? And her dad is emotionally very distant, and he doesn't know how to deal with her because she's like an 8 year old girl, and he's played by Sam Elliott.

You know how Sam Elliott is the kind of guy that looks old even when he's young? He's got the giant handlebar mustache. Mhmm. And the film is all about this little girl who's a little too much. She's a little over the top.

She's a little, like she's all emotion and raw feeling, and this older, repressed single dad has no idea how to deal with this or cope with this. And she finds a reindeer that she decides is Prancer, who is injured in the forest. And she sneaks him into the barn, and she starts feeding him. And eventually, whole town finds out, and it becomes a thing. And he wants to get rid of it, and he wants to send her off to live with her aunt because he's like, I don't know how to deal with with a girl.

I don't know how to do this. And she runs away to to try to go and save the reindeer and let them go and and whatever. And she ends up falling off of a tree. I think she climbs a tree and gets hurt and comes back. And in the emotional climactic scene, when she's talking to her dad, she says, I didn't really wanna run away.

I just wanted you to come and get me. And that's literally where she's operating from.

Eric: But see, what has what has what has happened? Men have been told

Sarah: Oh, no. Again, I'm

Eric: not saying it's fair. If if the woman says no, that's it. For you to continue to pursue is harassment. It's stalking. It's predatory.

So what else is Steele supposed to she says, get out. I'm better off without you anyway. Fine. Yeah. I'm gonna give you what you say you want.

And then it's, well, why didn't you follow me?

Sarah: I don't I don't I don't disagree. I never said like I said, this is a trauma response that's not a fair response, but it's the way her brain is telling her, this is the only way I'm gonna know if he cares. And on his mind, she's literally said, get out. I don't want you, which is you're right. Like, if a if a man is told throughout society that no means no, and if she doesn't want you not to pursue, and I I don't disagree with that, then respect the respectful thing to do is to to listen.

Right?

Eric: And then hold it against him for doing what you told him to do.

Sarah: So she he says that's a damn good question. She says, get out. And it's not even the fact that she told him to get out. It's this next line. Right?

If his line if his Mhmm. If his sort of, like, below the belt statement was, I'm not your father. I'm not the man that left your mother.

Eric: Her Get out the belt. Just make it out of the room.

Sarah: Yeah. It could've just yeah. But then she says yeah. But then she says, I was better off without you anyway. And that's like, if his if his metaphorical slap in the face was, I'm not your father, her metaphorical slap in the face is, I don't need you.

I was better off without you. You don't make my life better because everybody has been better off without him. Nobody has ever needed him. Nobody has ever

Eric: wanted him. Needed anybody else.

Sarah: I mean, she does need him, but she she doesn't know how to say that. But you're right. Yeah. So that's yeah. Like, he's just stunned.

He stands back. He's shocked. He looks at her, and he says, you mean that, don't you? Now to her credit, she doesn't respond. Maxine talks over her, though.

Mhmm. And says, of course she does. And Laura, she's I think Laura is too surprised that she said what she said to verbalize anything else. Like, I think she's as shocked about her own, like, statement as anybody else because she's never you know, they've never gotten that raw with each other. Right?

So Maxine steps in and says, of course, she does. And then Steele just kind of, like, hesitates and walks away because he's just done. Like, this is Mhmm. Too much. And I don't disagree with him.

Like, this is exit stage left. Right? Like, that's where you where you go. But, like, she Laura looks devastated, and Maxine says to Laura, don't worry. They always come back, which ouch.

What a thing to say. Because that's why Laura and and Stephanie is so perfect here. Like, the way her voice trembles ever so slightly when she says, do they? Because that's

Eric: not been her experience. Good and well that they don't.

Sarah: You know, she

Eric: knows why words don't matter.

Sarah: Well, they do, obviously, because they've both used words to hurt each other in the worst way they possibly can.

Eric: Oh, okay. Words don't matter when it comes to promises.

Sarah: Again, I I disagree. But, anyway, I think they both see them differently, and I think the re them seeing them differently makes sense to them, whether it makes sense to anybody else. Yeah. But outside, you see Steele. He's looking at the ocean thoughtfully, kind of leaning over in an awkward sort of, like, man thinking statue pose.

Yeah. Like, Laura approaches him. She says she's sorry. Like, she knows she took it too far. She says she got carried away.

She didn't mean what she said. At least I didn't mean it to come out that way.

Eric: Translation, I really meant it.

Sarah: Well, I don't think she meant she was better off without him. And she clarifies that at the end. She says life was easier. And and I think that that's fair. Like, it's it's more complicated now.

She's got more more things to lose because before him, she didn't have like, her heart wasn't on the line. Right? There was nobody she was really risking things with. Now there is. So she's but she does, to her credit, say, like, I didn't mean it.

I'm sorry. Like, there's no hesitation there. She's upfront apologizing. I screwed up. This went too far.

But he is so hurt that he doesn't he he barely registers. He's like, when in Rome, she continues. She says, I didn't mean hold on. I already said that part. She says he doesn't wanna have the conversation.

He suggests they stick to the case. She says they have to air things out between them. And he says, I thought we just did. And this is not the time, Laura. Mhmm.

He needs a minute. Like, it's good that I think it's good that she came and apologized. But to keep pushing is where I think the mistake is because you she we need to air things out. He's right. They did just air things out in the worst way.

And they need to go to their corners and lick their wounds and and regroup both of them. But she's so desperate for this reassurance that she hasn't ruined things completely that she kinda pushes at them.

Eric: They they need to when you say go to their corners and lick their wounds, what what they what they're needing really is to not necessarily lick their wounds, but just get off the emotional

Sarah: Yes. Yeah.

Eric: Peak that they're at.

Sarah: They need a break.

Eric: Yeah. They need a break. To start they need to push the emotions aside from the standpoint of not letting the emotions control them.

Sarah: Yeah. Because that's what just happened. Yeah. You know? And and they're both, like, they're both heightened right now.

They're both not really capable of of coming back. Like, they need to self regulate. They need to calm down. And neither 1 of them is able to do that. She wants him to look at her, but he you know, and she gets annoyed and says, there you go again.

You never wanna talk. Back it up, Laura. He stops her, though, and he points, telling her to look. She does, and we see Ursula and Gerald sharing an embrace they should not be sharing. Laura is surprised to see they're having an affair, and Steele looks at says it looks, like there's more here than meets the id.

I liked that comment because it it it goes into that idea of the the id, the ego, and the superego. Right? Mhmm. Do do you know that whole theory?

Eric: No. Okay. I've heard the terms. I I know that there's supposed to be some sort of relationship between them and, know, it's like, yeah. Okay.

Sarah: Fine. This is Floyd. It's 1 of Freud's theories. Right?

Eric: He basically been discounted. I mean, he's been totally blown away.

Sarah: I mean, I'm not agreeing with everything he said, but I do think there is an element here. It's like anything else. You're gonna pick bits and pieces of it that have some truth to it. Right? In this case, he divides the human psyche into 3 interacting components, the id, the ego, the superego.

And these help shape our personality and behavior. So the id is the pleasure principle, which makes sense given Ursula and Gerald here. Right? This is the unconscious. Like, this is basically like the the need for immediate gratification of basic impulses.

So, like, think of think of a toddler because a toddler is all id. Right? They don't know how to regulate themselves yet. They don't know how to not grab for something they want or throw a temper tantrum when they don't get what they want. They are entirely pleasure principle oriented because that's all they know.

Right?

Eric: Mhmm.

Sarah: The ego. So, like, if you keep moving up the chain here is the reality principle. This is the the conscious. This is this is the thing that balances impulse with rational limitations, moral constraints. Right?

The superego is the morality principle. This is societal values, morals, ethical standards, things that we learn from parents and society. But the problem is like, this is like the part of the self that is like, okay, this is against the rules. I can never go against the rules. Right?

Feelings of guilt when the rules are broken. This is the this is the part that's like striving for perfection. I have to be good all the time. I have to do this all the time. I can never speak out.

I can never do that. And the ego is supposed to balance those things because either 1 of those things on its own are not good. If you're entirely operating on pleasure principle, you're just doing whatever the hell you want and damn the consequences. And if you're operating entirely on superego, you're gonna be so concerned with following all the rules all the time that you're never gonna get anything done because the rules contradict themselves almost all the time. Right?

And what is morality? It becomes objective and subjective and all the other things. Right? So the ego is the thing that kind of, like, balances itself out. It's the thing that says stealing is wrong, but if you're starving, you might not have a choice.

It's the thing that says following the rules is is is good, but sometimes you have to break them for the greater good. Sometimes a white lie is necessary, that sort of thing. Right?

Eric: Okay.

Sarah: And Gerald and Ursula, if you think about it this way, Steele's maybe leaning a little bit more towards the id all his life. Laura has maybe leaned a little bit more towards the superego all their life, and and Gerald is clearly, meeting the id, so to speak. So, again, I don't know that all of Freud's stuff is legitimate, but I think that has some legitimacy that if these these systems aren't if if those 3 things aren't balanced, you're gonna have somebody who's maybe

Eric: Wacko?

Sarah: Yeah. To use a clinical term.

Eric: Yeah. Well, I only use clinical terms like wacko in that case and

Sarah: Not so. Yeah. So in the room, we see Steele angrily moving about getting bedding prepared for himself. They're definitely not sharing a bed after a bad argument. No.

But this time, it's not her setting that boundary. And I think that's what's unsettling to Laura because he's not even talking to her. He's just getting his sleeping arrangements made. Right? She's on the phone with Mildred.

She's trying to get Mildred to do some research, but Mildred obviously keeps interrupting and asking about the living arrangements. Laura says they're very comfortable. Mister Blaine is here. Well, no. You're not interrupting anything.

Literally, for the first time ever, Mildred's not interrupting anything. Still puts a blanket over a very uncomfortable looking chair situation. Mhmm. And Laura tells Mildred that there's another staff member she wants her to check out, caretaker by the name of Ethan Deerfield. She tells her, Hall of Records, the works.

Thanks her, pauses, testily says, sweet dreams to you and yours too, Mildred, before hanging up. She goes over to Steele, says sometimes she thinks Mildred would be happier working for the National Enquirer. She's trying to break the tension. It's not really working. Nope.

Still continues his work without looking up at Laura, and she asked if he's still mad. And talk about missing the point. He's not mad. He's hurt. Yeah.

There's a difference.

Eric: Well, they're related.

Sarah: Oh, yeah. I'm not saying they're not, but I think the primary feeling that he's got right now is hurt. She said she didn't need him, and he doesn't know how to process that. And I think, also, he's not engaging with her because he's he's afraid if he does, he's gonna say more crap

Eric: that like, he's gonna hurtful. Like, he doesn't Yeah. It it's bad enough to to set set the bridge on fire when you're standing on it, but don't don't start dropping bombs on it too. Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah. Like, I genuinely think he's pulled back and not engaging because he doesn't know how to do it right now without being just as hurtful. So he's trying not to. And, again, he doesn't know how to articulate that because men. Yeah.

Right. Right? So it looks like he's completely disengaged or not engaging to Laura, but that's not what's going on here. He says, he's just concentrating on the case. He points out they saw their client locked in an embrace with Ursula, the queen of touching and feeling.

He turns off the lights and takes off his robe. Laura says there's not much they can do about it till that morning. She sits down on the edge of his chair and tries to bring up what happened earlier, but he lays down on the chair and suggests they get a good night's sleep. After all, they have a long day tomorrow. He tries to pull the covers over himself, but she's sitting on them, tugs a bit, gives up, and angrily, she says fine, walks over to the bed.

She turns out the light takes off her robe. She gets into bed and says goodnight. He says it back, and then we have the camera zoom in on on her, and she looks sad and small. And then it switches over to him, and he looks like it as well. Like, they're both hurting and not knowing how to bridge that gap.

Like, it's it's wide.

Eric: Yeah. It's been quite a fight.

Sarah: Yeah. We see the morning comes, the rooster where's the rooster? We hear a rooster crow. We where is hornet?

Eric: Where is a rooster ever at?

Sarah: Well, I mean, I've heard roosters crow at in barns. Like, my my daughter horse rides at a barn. I hear the rooster there crows all the damn time. It's irritating. But, like, where's the rooster here?

Eric: Maybe they've got a, you know, livestock area. Who knows? No. Just because we haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Sarah: Alright. Fine. Laura's in bed. Steele is gone. Outside, we see him walking the grounds.

And and again, this is 1 of those, like, he's trying to process. He's up early because he couldn't sleep. He's walking around. He's thinking about things. He sees Gerald.

Steele says it's beautiful morning for getting in touch with one's inner core. Gerald asks if he cares to join him in the hot tub. Steele tells him no thanks and that they may be onto something with the investigation. Gerald looks eager asking if they have a lead. Steele says, he doesn't know.

You tell me. See, he says that if they're gonna solve cases, they need to have all the facts. Gerald says, we gave you all the facts. And Steele says, including your affair with Ursula Erickson? Oops.

Gerald looks shocked and says, you know, you were kissing in broad daylight on the beach, dude. You weren't exactly being subtle. I

Eric: guess he's he thought they were.

Sarah: Like, this was not like you were hiding in a corner. You were, like, like, there was nothing around you. Steele says that's the price you pay for hiring Remington Steele investigations or, I don't know, having eyeballs. Yeah. Gerald tries to argue.

Eric: Or or doing it right in the middle of the road, as John Newman said.

Sarah: Yeah. Gerald tries to argue it's not what it seems. It kinda is, though. Yeah. Right?

Like, anytime someone says it's not what it seems with regards to an affair, it usually is.

Eric: Is when it seems you. Yeah. It's kinda like when when a politician is is asked a question and they their response is, I'm glad you asked that question. No. You're really not.

Sarah: And then and then they don't answer it? Yeah. Exactly. He says he loves Sonya. Steele fills in the butt, and he looks down, and he says it's funny.

He's a clinical psychologist with 20 years of experience, but when the shoe's on his own foot and this is pretty common, I would think. Yeah. Because, like, I've I've I've known a lot of people who have had therapists for parents and stuff, and they're pretty terrible when it comes to self analyzing themselves. And Steele he trails off, and Steele asks if he and Sonya are having problems. And Gerald says, no, not professionally.

That's why he didn't mention it. Their commitment to the spa is built on a bedrock of love and devotion. I don't think so, but okay. He says, as for their personal life, he hesitates and admits that he hasn't touched her in months. He then says with their license in jeopardy, he trails off again.

He looks at Steele and tells him he wants it to work, but Sonya, it's obvious her work is more important than their marriage. You really we know that that's blatantly not true.

Eric: If if you really wanted it to work, why aren't you working on Sonya instead Ding of ding ding. Islam?

Sarah: Instead of the queen of touching and feeling? Good question. Still, without seemingly without judgment or comment asks about Ursula. Someone ashamed, Gerald says, she's a sweet, undemanding friend who, unlike Sonia, understands his all too human frailties. That sounds like a bunch of gobbledygook for, as Steele points out, no strings attached.

Eric: Yep.

Sarah: Gerald says exactly, and Steele laughs kind of like I don't think he's laughing as, like, I agree with you, and it's okay. I think it's more of a laugh. Like, okay, bud. Yeah.

Eric: And and he the the what's his face? Says Gerald. Gerald. Yes. Says when Steele says no strings attached, he says, exactly.

Now listen and understand that's not what I want. And, Steele says, I And and what Steele is really meaning is, no. I understand exactly what you want, and it's a little bit lower than the brain.

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny because for Steele, it's kind of like the reverse.

Right? He doesn't want no strings attached. He wants that connection, but, you know, and and I I don't think he's thinking about that right in this moment, but, like, it's it's just kinda funny that he, you know, he says, I want it to work with Sonya. And if she ever left me, I don't know what he would do. Like, then don't cheat maybe.

Work on her marriage. Like well, I to and to be fair, she's a nut job. So, like Well,

Eric: it turns out she is. Yes. Yeah. She doesn't get she doesn't appear that way. But yes.

Sarah: If if she were not trying to kill him Yeah. The appropriate thing to do would not be to have an affair. It would be to work on the marriage.

Eric: Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah. But he's he's saying, you know, I want it to work with Sonia, and if she ever left me, I don't know what I would do. Well, you're not you're pushing her out the door by, you know, macking on queen of touching and feeling in the middle of the beach. Like Yeah. Ugh.

Anyway, I don't get why I don't get cheating. I don't get it. Like, I don't especially, like, I get it, I guess, if you're somebody who doesn't care and doesn't want the relationship to work. But if you want a relationship to work, then cheating makes no sense to me. It just

Eric: Yeah. You gotta spend time on the relationship to make it work.

Sarah: Yeah. So he he sighs, and he says, if you'll forgive me, I have a lot of mellowing out to do, and then he walks away. We see then see Steele inside the utility closet that caught fire. He's checking out the remnants of it. Laura walks by, and and she's they're still kinda dressed alike here.

Mhmm. She's wearing a jacket very similar to his. She's awkward and unsure. She comments on how he was up early this morning. Sorry.

You're it looked like you were gonna say something. Yeah.

Eric: I was gonna say, as far as their clothing, the the jackets don't really match in terms of the style and the material, but the pants and his her pants and his jacket match color on dead on.

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and I I didn't say this before, but, like, it's interesting that they seem to get the, I don't know, 3 or 4 days out of the year that LA is not totally sunny. Because it seems like throughout this entire episode, it's been, like, just after a storm.

Mhmm. You know what I mean? Like, it's it's been very sort of dreary looking at the spa, not, like, bright and sunny and beach like that we normally see. So I thought that was kinda interesting. But, yeah, he says lumpy couch.

He has he thought it was time they checked out the closet, and neither of them will look at each other. They they're looking down at their feet. They're looking away. They're not sure how to talk to each other because she says, like, she's hesitant with him in a way she's never been. Right?

She says Mildred called with information about Ethan. Deerfield, caretaker, and curious Steele says, oh, and she says, some brushes with the law several years back, car theft, assault, battery, nasty little things like that. He says, that's interesting. And she says it gets better. And this is where the only time they seem to even start to, like, build a rapport is when they're talking about the case.

Mhmm. That's safe space. That's safe territory. It's not their feelings. Right?

She says, guess who owned all this acreage before it was auctioned off to Carl Friedlick for back taxes in 1968 for a poultry 75,000? Steele guesses it was Ethan, but she says close, Ethan's father. So, like, this is the buffer, the case. Steele muses that with oceanfront property now at astronomical prices, Ethan's family would have been millionaires had they been able to hold on to the land. Laura agrees, and she is still kind of like, she's holding her arms around her chest as if she's protecting herself.

Like, they're they're closed off. Their body language is very closed off. She asked if he's had any luck. He says to a degree. He tells her to have a look and shows her the fine ash on the floor saying, this is where the fire burned the hottest, which means it started there as opposed to the wiring where everybody else thought.

Laura says, and it's an eerie device, and he agrees, saying nothing too complicated. All 1 would need would be a workbench, a couple of tools, and she finishes a key to this closet. He looks up at her for the first time and says, time to check out Ethan, wouldn't you say? So next we see Laura, stealing Sonia. She says she understands the need to pursue every angle, but Ethan being responsible is ludicrous.

Again, very carefully kind of like planting the seeds of like, it can't be Ethan. Mhmm. But, yeah. Laura asked if she's aware of his criminal past, and so he says, of course. But who could blame him after his father lost the property he took to drinking, died a broken man?

Ethan was devastated and struck back at society the only way he could by getting into trouble. Steele asks about what about today? Wondering if he's sure Ethan doesn't bear her in the spa any ill will. And they arrive at his living quarters or his apartment, whatever you wanna call it. She puts the key in the lock.

She says, oh, totally sure. The whole affair sent her and Gerald on such a guilt trip. They offered Ethan a job at the spa. That was 8 years ago. He's been like a son to them ever since.

Right. They enter the apartment, and Laura tells her that she understands they have to look around just to be sure. Steele adds that anyone who had access to all scenes of the accidents has to be a suspect. Sonia reluctantly says she supposes. It just makes her feel like such a snoop.

She tells them that she doesn't know how they handle it. Laura says the only way they know how with discretion. Sonya asked that they excuse her. She has to put in a call to their lawyer to see what legal recourse they have in case they get shut down. She leaves, and they begin to look around again, not looking at each other.

Steele asks her what she thinks, and she says it's hard to tell, adding that vengeance is a powerful emotion. And this is the first time he's even mentioned the fight. He says emotions seem to be the order of the day. She looks back, but she doesn't say anything. But she does flick her finger on the pot lid and sets it down, which I thought was kind of like a good visual.

Steele absentmindedly looks through Ethan's toolbox while she opens the closet and pulls something out. Holding it up, she says, Guidewire. Steele didn't really hear her and says, She clarifies saying the heater that fell over and almost electrified Gerald, nobody could find defective guide wire. Steele says it looks like they are both onto something and hold something up. Laura asked what it is, and Steele says along with her wire, the passport back to the bliss for late erotic.

Oh my god. We then see him unscrewing the relief valve on the hot tub. He says that 1 shiny relief valve wheel comes off just like the old 1 apparently did saturating the soil under the gazebo. And presto, on goes the old chlorine bleach 1 that they found hidden away in Ethan's toolbox. Relief valve, guidewire, has to be Ethan.

She starts to protest. He's like, no. No. No buts. For once, let's just have a simple open and shut investigation.

Yeah. Really? Laura says if Ethan's motive was vengeance, why now after all this time? Steele cites Hamlet, Laurence Olivier, Gene Simmons, Arthur Rankin, 1948. A son sworn to avenge his father suddenly explodes like a time bomb.

No. No. No. No. No.

I am calling bullcrap on that. As a teacher who has taught Hamlet, he doesn't explode like a time bomb. That dude spends 4 freaking hours whining and and and going on, should I do it? Should I not do it to be or not to be? What if he's innocent?

What if he isn't? What if he did it? What if he goes and goes to heaven instead of hell? Like, this guy doesn't make a damn decision. That's the whole fatal flaw of his character is that he can't make a choice.

I realized he needed to say that for emphasis because that's when the explosion happens, but, dude, you got that 1 wrong.

Eric: Anyway. Never read that.

Sarah: As he says yeah. As he says this, an explosion in the sauna goes off behind them, and they duck. Neil Brimsley stumbles out in his towel, yelling that someone is still inside by the water heater. Laurie yells to get the fire department still runs in and pulls somebody out, and it's Ethan. He comments that it looks like they found their man, and Lisa Lisa.

Lisa. Laura agrees. Dead to rights. Later, we see them investigating the burned wreckage of the sauna. Steele says it looked like Ethan was trying to bypass the automatic cutoff sensor.

Laura agrees it tracks. Ethan, driven by a perverted sense of vengeance, was setting up another accident when it backfired on him figuratively and literally. Steele suggests that Ethan might have been lured into the sauna under false pretext. She asks what he's talking about, and he says what self respect respecting handyman would tackle a coupling nut without his toolbox or at least a wrench anyway? He leans down looking around as Laura wonders if it wasn't Ethan.

Should he

Eric: have said spanner?

Sarah: I don't know. I don't know what I don't know what any of those things he said means. So

Eric: Well, I thought that in British terminology, wrench was called a spanner.

Sarah: Oh. 0, yeah. Probably. My husband doesn't really use a wrench, so I'd have to ask him. If I put 1 in his hand, he'd be like, what do I do with this?

I don't I don't know. But you're right. There's the British isms, that typically don't get you like, torch. He never calls a flashlight. Well, actually, he has called a flashlight a torch once or twice.

Now, I think of it. But, yeah, he he brings it right full circle back to Brimsley, a man so obsessed with jealousy, he'll stop at nothing to destroy his nemesis, Arthur Henderson. They climb out of the sauna and begin walking away, and Laura stops him saying, it's bit of a distant long shot. She points, and we see them hugging. And I'd love to know what brought them to that point, but okay.

Steele wonders who would profit from putting the spot of business. He muses that Gerald and Sony could benefit by selling off the property, but before he can say anymore, Maxine interrupts them and tells them they're wrong. She apologizes and says she has a pet hope of free associating. Which is a nice word for eavesdropping. Yeah.

Laura Laura encourages Maxine to explain, and she says that Gerald and Sonya couldn't make a nickel off this place even if they wanted to. Laura wonders why not, and Maxine says that Carl Friedrich was too smart for them. In his will, he formed a trust to operate the spa for eternity. Sonia and Gerald can run it, but they can't sell it. Steele is amused at the good doctor's last grasp of immortality, calling it very clever.

She says, clever? No. Just warm, human, decent, with a burning desire to make the world a better place. If he only knew what they were doing to his felt and chonging, she's so overcome. She sticks her finger in her mouth and runs away, Steele watches her go, and he says, why does she make the thought of screaming so appealing?

I love it. I it. I it. I love it. Laura says, mister Steele, I've just had a consciousness raising experience.

He's oh, good lord. You've gone over too. You're beginning to sell like the rest of them. How about I got it?

Eric: Okay. That I understand.

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. The main office, we see Sonya open the door, and Laura and Steele enter. Laura is beaming. She tells her that Gerald her and Gerald, that they have good news.

They just got off the phone with the state licensing board. Gerald up at this, and Laura says they thought it imperative they know the facts about Ethan Deerfield, so they intervened on their behalf with the help of 1 of their clients in Sacramento. And I have to wonder if she actually did this or not. She's just telling her that she did. Because I'm thinking maybe it's not even like, they didn't even do it.

She's just telling

Eric: Yeah. Right? Well, you know, especially if this is over a weekend

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: They wouldn't be open.

Sarah: Exactly. Sonya asked what the good news and Laura tells her the spa's off the hook now that they have certified that Ethan was the lone culprit responsible for all the accidents. Sonya asked if that means their license will be renewed, and Laura says, as of this moment, you are back in business. Sonya smiles and says she doesn't believe it. Gerald lets out a whoop of joy and swings her around in a hug.

She exclaims that the spirit of Carl Friedwick lives and it's too good to be true or believe. Laura tells her she better get back to her packing. As she leaves, they break apart and smile at each other. Sonya tells Gerald, go take a soak. He asked her to come with him, and she, know, she smiles suggestively and says she'll be here when he gets back.

She will be, but she's hoping he won't be. Then we see Gerald walk towards the hot tub of the darkness. He sheds his robe and gets in. It looks like he's in his underwear, which is a little weird. Well,

Eric: yeah. I mean, it could be could be a really weird bathing suit, like, maybe a Speedo type thing. But I mean, it does look a bit like underwear.

Sarah: But He looks like he's in his, which is with with guests on the property seems like an odd choice, but okay.

Eric: Well, I mean, think what's really the the difference between underwear and and a bathing suit? You know?

Sarah: Fair enough. That's a good point. The perspective shifts, and we see someone clad in black break into the electrical panel for the Jacuzzi. They cut a few wires and we see the entire thing become electrified, frying whoever is in there to a crisp. The body slumps over and we see the person in black running away from the scene only to be intercepted by Steele who is wearing the same robe Gerald was.

He turns the flashlight on and we see it's Sonya. He tells her lovely evening to soak once cares away, and it's obvious this was a setup. Okay. But how? Yeah.

Like, did it was it necessary to get to for someone to actually get into the hot tub? And if they did get into the hot tub, then what did they do? Did they have like, did did they jump out and put a dummy in? Like That's If not, why not just have the dummy in there in the first place? Like, I'm I'm

Eric: Yeah. Of course. That's that's strictly for the viewing audience. That's that had nothing to do with the reality of how they did it because you're right. You wouldn't have taken the chance of somebody getting in there and Sonya getting to the panel before you could get them out and get the dummy And in if she wasn't there to see it happen, which would be the way that they would have enough time to do that, you didn't need to get in there.

All you had to do is put the dummy there. So, yeah, it's it's all about front screen.

Sarah: Fair enough. And I guess that would be visually necessary. Although, they could have just cut to the dummy in the hot tub. Mhmm. And then the figure creeping up to the panel.

Right?

Eric: And that that might have been a little bit more dramatic.

Sarah: Yeah. True. Gerald then runs up wearing a different robe, and when she sees him, she screams, No! You're dead! I saw you die!

Over by the hot tub, Laura pulls out the dummy and tells her to think again. Steele tells her that Gerald was kind enough to trade robes with him to confirm their suspicions. Gerald asks her why, and she says she's sick of being sensitive. She's sick of him. She's sick of middle class yuppies who have nothing better to do with their time than to come here and listen to him babble.

And although I don't agree with her methods, can't really disagree with the rest of it. That's true. You know? Like, Gerald protests about their work, and she tells him your work, not mine. 6 months ago in Cleveland while they were waiting to make another and I love the fact that she, like, hesitates and then says local television appearance as if it's like poop on the bottom of her shoe.

Like, it's the most disgusting. It's not even it's like not not national. Another local television appearance. Yeah. She realized she had spent her entire life trying to help other people, and she decided it was time to help herself.

Yes. Gerald was in disbelief. He protested. What about all the love and care that went into you can be better than okay? She's wise up.

When you are sitting on land worth $6,500,000 and you can't do anything about it, you are worse than okay. And it's I mean, Steele and Laura share a look, and it's interesting that 2 people who are supposed to be experts at relationship and communication could not be further apart. Yeah. They don't know each other at all. Nope.

Eric: Laura and That's Steele the the arrogance of experts. Yeah. I mean, seriously, they they are so enamored with their own brilliance that they can't see what's right in front of their faces. And they, know, they claim to be relationship experts, but they can't hold a decent relationship. It's it's all about do as I say, not as I do.

So yeah. I

Sarah: mean Yeah. And I think also that that's a juxtaposition they're making to show that Laura and still have their issues, but they know each other.

Eric: Yeah.

Sarah: Right? They're both wanting the same thing to be closer. They're just

Eric: They just can't figure out how to get there.

Sarah: Get there. Whereas Gerald did not know his wife at all. Like No. Turns out when she

Eric: was totally opposite directions.

Sarah: Yeah. He's going towards Ursula from touching and feeling, and she's going towards a jail cell. Yeah. Those are the directions. Yeah.

It's the next day, and we see the police car drive away with Sony inside. The others stare and watch. Ursula comments that they're finally done with their questioning. Poor Gerald. Martha says he can't believe it.

Ursula agrees. It doesn't make any sense. Neil wonders how Sonya could do it. Steele references save the tiger with Jack Lennon, Jack Guilford, Paramount 1972. Factory owner trapped in a losing business venture decides the only way out is arson, profiting from the insurance money.

Laura adds that in Sonia's case, was a matter of inducing the state licensing board to close down the spa so the conditions of Carl Friedlig's trust would no longer apply, even if it meant murdering her own husband. They look fantastic here, by the way. Like, not sweater porn is your thing, but Steele looks good in that sweater. And Laura, that patch jacket, I love it. I love it.

Eric: I like later on in the tag when we when they're out on the beach and we get close ups. They don't have a whole lot of makeup on her. No. And she looks fantastic.

Sarah: And it's like, you can tell that it's been raining because it's, like, windswept, and there's like, the air looks salty, and it it yeah. They look normal. Like, they look like a normal couple. Like, obviously, there's makeup on because it's TV. There's always gonna be makeup to some degree, but, like, she they don't look like they're her hair is a little frizzy.

Eric: Yeah.

Sarah: Right? Her hair is a little bit frizzy because of the because of the the sea spray, which makes sense. And, like, she looks natural and and really beautiful, and, like, it just it looks good. Like, this is and I think it's also, like, they're stripped down physically to kinda mirror that being that emotional stripping down that they've had throughout this episode. Right?

Because Yeah. So Steele says that according to a loophole, is well if the spa were to go out of business, Sonya inherited the land to do with as she pleased. Ursula wonders, what about Ethan? Laura says, oh, yes. Ethan, Sonya's partner in crime.

Brimsley is surprised at this, and Steele clarifies, well, ex partner. She played on his bitterness and offered him a quarter of 1,000,000 from the land sale if he he did all the dirty work. He says, unfortunately, for Ethan, he decided he had enough on Sonia to insist on a 50 50 split. Laura adds that Sonia lured him into the sauna that triggered the explosion making it look like an accident. Steele says the, she, sorry.

The cleverly planted evidence Nathan's cabin for them to find, and Laura finishes with leaving her off the hook forever and free to join the ranks of the idle rich. Ursula says, poor Gerald to be married to such a diabolical woman.

Eric: And then It's only she had

Sarah: snuggled more. Snuggled more. Oh, I love it. Steele shakes his hand and tells him to keep up the good work. Maybe someday he'll be running the place.

Brimsley is bolstered by the statement and thanks Steele. He then goes over to Arthur and says, in the meantime, Arthur will continue to be executive director, traveling up and down the country hobnobbing with Jane Polly Merv Griffin. Arthur smiles happy with the statement. Still looks at Maxine and says, and meanwhile, the rest of the staff can get back to the unsullied simplicity of the Friedrichs system. Yeah.

He kisses her cheek. Maxine beams and says, now she can stay on and carry on Carl's work. She tries to say more, but she's overcome with emotion, and she puts her finger in her mouth like, no. Steeley just kind of, like, kinda giggles a little bit of that. But then he turns and just kisses Ursula's cheek and says, bye, Snuggles, which I find funny.

Laura tells him to come along, and as they walk away, she says, was it necessary to stir them up like that? And he grins, man's gotta have a little fun in life. As they reach the Auburn, Steele, in better spirit, says it's strange. He's almost sorry to leave. Laura is surprised by this, and Steele suggests that they delay it for a couple of hours and get back in time for lunch.

She agrees. Mean Does

Eric: seem mean, think about it. Other than the the nut cases there running the place, it's actually a very nice place. I mean, this is the kind of place he would take her

Sarah: Exactly.

Eric: On a weekend if she would just say yes.

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So they that you see them walking along the beach. Like I said, it looks like it's been raining or storming for the past few days.

The sun is nowhere to be seen, but I like it better this way. I think it actually makes sense because this is like the calm after the storm. Right? Mhmm. Emotionally.

Laura still has her arms crossed around her as if she's, like, protecting herself. Steele is a little more open now. He's had some time to think, which, I mean, that's sometimes what people need. Right? He says Mhmm.

So where are we? And then he says, see, I'm talking again. She looks up and smiles, but there's not any anger in her smile. It's obvious she just doesn't know where to begin. Right?

She says, this time, I'm the 1 who doesn't have anything to say. He asked the question that's been eating at him ever since she said it. Were you really better off without me or before you met me? She looks down at the sand and says no. They turn to face 1 another, and she looks up at him and telling tells him that life was easier, though.

Less interesting, but easier, which I know maybe a lot of fans didn't wanna hear her say that, but I think that they're finally being honest. Like, she's Mhmm. Being honest with me. It wasn't What

Eric: is that about that that you don't think fans would would wanna hear?

Sarah: I don't know. I think fans wanted more out of the scene. I think and I I could be wrong. I could be speculating, but just some of the comments I've seen over the years, I think fans wanted more concrete declarations from both of them, not just her, but from him as well, and neither of them give it here. And I get it.

We've been strung along for 4 years by these writers kind of, like, push and pull, push and pull, but I think this this is the first time it feels organic as opposed to, like, we're just gonna tease you, but then we're gonna yet come back again because we we can't have them get together. Right? This time, I don't think it feels that way. I think she's being honest that life wasn't better, but it was easier in the sense that she wasn't worried about her her heart or what she might lose or any of that. It was more just like, I didn't have as much to worry about before you were around.

Right? Like and then he looks down as well, and then he way away. He tells Laura without looking directly at her, which is, again, a way for him to protect himself when he gets too vulnerable. He says, I know what you mean. Before I met you, I didn't know where I'd be every day or with whom.

Didn't matter because I always liked it like that. He finally turns to look her in the eye and says, that all changed the day he met her.

Eric: Now see, your comment that some fans wanted more declaration here. That's a declaration.

Sarah: Oh, yeah. Yes.

Eric: Mean, that is that is more of a declaration than by far than anything he's ever said up to this point. And that is

Sarah: In my notes, I wrote, this is as close to an admission of love as he's ever gotten.

Eric: Yeah.

Sarah: Right? Like, he's saying that changed. I no longer want that. Yeah. Laura smiles and says, change for the better, and he laughs, easing the tension a bit and says, oh, sometimes I don't know.

I've wondered about that, which, again, this is nice. This is nice that they're bantering. And he says, but here we are. And this is it. This is his promise.

This is his way of telling her he plans to stay. Deeds, not words. He stayed all this time. Laura agrees, and you can see in her eyes that she's sort of starting to understand what he's been trying to tell her.

Eric: Well, jumping back a half second. Based on what you just said, this is his deeds, not words, except that he did say the words. He says, I didn't know where I'd be the next day or with whom. It didn't matter, but that all changed. That isn't just deeds.

That is the words. Those are the 4 letter word in there that Laura says she's looking for isn't in there, but that is the words him saying, it does matter now where I'm going to be the next day and who I'm gonna be with.

Sarah: Well Yeah.

Eric: He doesn't come right out and and say it blatantly, but that's about as close as he's gonna get.

Sarah: I was more referring to when she says change for the better, and he says, I don't know. Sometimes I've wondered about that, and then he says, but here we are.

Eric: Well yeah.

Sarah: What's unsaid there is I'm still here.

Eric: Yeah.

Sarah: And that's the deed part. That's the, like Okay. Sometimes I've wondered, but I'm still here. Right? So she agrees.

And like I said, I think she's starting to understand where he's coming from a bit more. He tells her that he knows that they both want, and this is acknowledging that he knows that she does want things to go forward. Right? That he doesn't think she's putting the brakes on and not trying to put things forward. He says, we we both want whatever it is between us to go forward.

She looks down once more, and she says, I think you're right. He says, so and then she finishes by asking, how do we get there? They turn and start walking again. And still, this is where he kind of gives her the insight into his psyche, I think, that she needed. Right?

He says words don't come easily to me, at least not the ones you need to hear. Right? He he she's she kinda like realizes what he's trying to say. He says he wants to tell her what she needs to hear, but words are difficult. And then he's been showing her how he feels the entire time.

She meets him in the middle by saying, it's hard to be a man of mystery if you give all your secrets away. He goes 1 further, though, and he says, where I came from, I learned to read people by what they said or sorry, by what they did, not by what they said. There are too many traps in that. And if you think about like, I know we've gone over the words are meaningless thing, but it was words that lied to him, or that made him feel unsafe and unloved. For Laura Mhmm.

Her father told her he loved her. Wilson told her he loved her. She believed the words, and, obviously, it was the deeds that broke her trust. But, like, they they both have the same things happen. They're just taking different lessons from it.

And she here he's explicitly saying to her, here, I've watched people treat me badly my entire life, and I understand what that means. And I have trouble saying things because I know that saying things can be misused. I know that, like, that's not always something that you can trust, but I can trust if somebody hugs me, or I can trust if somebody, like, touches my hand or or what have you. Like, he's giving her that insight.

Eric: She says he's also I think he's also telling her that she needs to revise her expectations as well. Absolutely. Because he the the fact that he is following through on this should say more to her than apparently it has.

Sarah: Yeah. Well, I I think she under she literally says, I understand here. Right? She stops

Eric: But I think she's I think she says, I understand in the sense of how it applies to him, not necessarily in the sense of how it should apply to her as well. I I think she's just simply responding to him saying, this is what I I've learned for myself. He's trying to kinda hint that you need to learn this about me as well and understand how this applies to you, but she's missing that last part. She's just simply saying, okay. I understand how that applies to you.

I could be wrong. But

Sarah: Well, I I know I

Eric: think she happened once before. I was wrong.

Sarah: I do think she understands that he's trying to tell her, I wanna be able to give you the things that you need, but I have my own stuff that's stopping me, and you need to meet me in the middle, which I think she does by saying, I understand. Right? Like, I you know, she may not and this is, again, maybe because he hasn't been as open with her about what he's gone through

Eric: Yeah.

Sarah: As she has about what she's gone through. And that's not his fault. It's just a matter of, like, sometimes you guard your hurts really closely, especially if they're something that nobody else will really understand. Like, people could understand divorce, and people can understand a parent leaving even if they've never been through it. But it's hard to understand, like, a kid just being tossed around without anybody loving him, and then, like, living on the streets.

She's never gone through that. And he maybe hasn't told her because he maybe he didn't feel safe to. It didn't feel safe. Right? But she is starting to kind of, like, give him that safety.

I understand. She hasn't demanded that he say, I love you or turned around and said, you need to you know, she's kind of just, like, taking what he's saying at face value, and then he stops and tells her he took a stab at revising his letter, the 1 where he had to list all her endearing qualities. He hands it to her, and she reads it. And it even says on the script that we don't get to know what it says, which feels like a out. Bit of

Eric: The Office.

Sarah: Yeah. It does feel like a bit of a cop out in this in the sense that we don't know what he wrote. I mean, lots of fan fiction describe it, and there's some really good ones out there. So that's awesome. But it also I I I call it a cop out, but I also think it's it's kind of necessary in the sense that whatever he said Mhmm.

We know it's something cheeky. We know it's sweet, but maybe hasn't gone as far as they need it to go just yet because they're still not where they need to be. Mhmm. Right? It's a peace offering, but it's not a declaration.

And I think no matter what it says, somebody would be disappointed by it. So

Eric: Yeah. It's it's just like the teapot note in the office.

Sarah: Yeah. Sorry.

Eric: It's it's meant to signify that there's there's a communication there that is significant. But right. Exactly. No matter what they put in there, it would have not fans would not have necessarily universally accepted

Sarah: it. Exactly.

Eric: And the the lack of detail on it makes it all the more intriguing.

Sarah: Yeah. And her face, she does so much with her, like, facial response to give us what the note says. Right? Because we see she's reading it. We see a smile creep across her face.

She looks up at him. She laughs like her face breaks out into a smile. They laugh. He looks proud of himself. Like, he looks really like, you know, almost like the the kid that got an a on the assignment.

Right? And then

Eric: Mhmm.

Sarah: He pulls her into this beautiful hug, and the camera sort of focuses on his face, and he looks like he's sort of clutching her closely, like, never wants to let her go. And it's just really good visual look to the 2 of them. They break apart, and he pulls her in. She kisses his neck, which is, like, a really intimate thing to do. Right?

Like, that's not it's not sexual, but it's intimate. And then he sort of, like, pulls her in close. And, like, physically, they've never looked more in sync, intimate, aligned, whatever you wanna call it. Right? Because they walk down the beach arm in arm, and he says it's start.

And then she she laughs, and they just kind of, like, walk together, and it freezes. We've got a comment tag.

Eric: Got a comment here from, 1 of 1 of the, viewers. I missed a couple of them earlier. 1 was, she this this viewer had the same question about something that we we talked about. I don't know what it was because I missed the note at the time. But they're commenting that there's a cool side by side picture out there of this scene and a scene from the movie The Way We Were, which was early eighties, I guess, Barbara Streisand.

Yeah. Yeah. And the comment is it's interesting how similar they look. Maybe Gleeson was a fan of the movie. Meaningless trivia, they say.

Sarah: Oh, could be.

Eric: So and and they also agree that it's it's good not to know what the note says, and the the reaction is genuine.

Sarah: I love the reaction. I love it. I love how she laughs and how she smiles, and she looks like so she looks gorgeous here. Right? And then he just looks so good, and, like, they just oh, it's beautiful.

It's just my favorite tag probably of the entire series is this tag here.

Eric: No. I think I think the 1 of the reasons that she she looks so much better in this scene than some of the others is because, again, the lack of fake up.

Sarah: Yeah. No. I I don't disagree with it. I I don't mind some makeup, but, like, they've had her so done up in some of the episodes that it's just looked a bit, like, out of proportion to what she's doing in her day to day life. Yes.

So yeah. Whoo. There we go.

Eric: That's a long 1.

Sarah: I know. But we knew that was gonna happen, I think.

Eric: Well, yeah. I I kinda I kinda had a feeling that 1 of us was gonna drag

Sarah: it Okay. I feel like you're putting some stuff on me. That's I think you need to snuggle it out is what I'm saying. No. No.

No. You put us in a room with the. Anyway, on the website, www.Steelewatching.com, we've got show notes, links to Amazon US and Amazon Canada, ways to support us, like buy us a coffee, become a subscriber. There's merch and stuff like that as well as?

Eric: Amazon links to Hamlet and save the tiger. I mean, if I can find the Hamlet.

Sarah: You can find any Hamlet. It doesn't matter. So many of them.

Eric: Hamlet and Eggs. We also have links for your friends who can start following the podcast and their favorite podcast player. We've got links to the official Steele Watching Facebook page, Twitter, Instagram pages, and, of course, a link to the ever popular but not our own controlled group, the Steele Watchers Sand Group, where everybody just kinda gets together and tells me how wonderful I am and how brilliant I am. And

Sarah: Okay. Somebody needs a psychiatrist.

Eric: They they they give me written hugs in the group. Yeah. Snuggles. Yes.

Sarah: Sure. Whatever you say. But, I mean and and anything else on the heels of this episode might feel like a letdown, but I love the next episode stealing the spotlight. So I'm looking forward to it.

Eric: Alright. Well, we'll do it then. That's pretty much all

Sarah: I had to say. I think we've said all we need to say about this episode because it's awesome, and I love it.

Eric: Alrighty. I guess that's it.

Sarah: Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye.