Eric: Welcome to steel watching the podcast for Remington steel fans. I am Eric, and I just wanna say I'm a regular Phil Donahue.

Sarah: And I'm Sarah, and I'm ready for my close-up. Oh. Or something. I don't know.

Eric: Who was it that said that? I don't remember.

Sarah: Gloria Swanson?

Eric: Swanson. Yeah. Yeah. Think so. Before we get into stuff, we have a lot of stuff to get

Sarah: We do. To

Eric: we get into stuff.

Sarah: All this stuff.

Eric: Yes. There's there's stuff and then there's other stuff. And then we're we're going to start with this stuff. On the Facebook group, Steel Watchers Facebook group, we had a number of of people answer the question that we had. You remember we were talking about the Korea lamps.

Sarah: Oh, yes. Yeah.

Eric: Yeah. Were they because we'd first spotted them in steel spawning when Bing breaks the lamp in in Laura's office. And and we could not remember having seen them in the show before. Well, well, the fans have spoken.

Sarah: We just weren't paying attention.

Eric: Yes. They have spotted various versions of the Korea lamps on Laura's desk as far back as season 1. And, of course, they posted proof of our negligence. However, however, it seems that Laura is just as careless and irresponsible and destructive to Korea lamps as Bing Perrette is because it seems like every photo that they posted in the Facebook group of 1 of the Korea lamps from the show is a different lamp. It's not the same.

Sarah: She's breaking them. Yeah. She's got a stockpile in the back. I was just like, oh,

Eric: here we go. Yeah. She buys them wholesale. Yeah. Anyway and on the same subject of the Korea lamps, we got a comment from a a Spotify listener.

A Spotify listener. Hello, listener. Wasn't there come? What what's that?

Sarah: It wasn't me.

Eric: No. It wasn't you. No. It it was not you. There was a name given.

We we don't we don't share names because we don't have permission. But, anyway, their their comment was, I have had multiple friends and family members respond to breaking something I valued from ceramics to appliances by disparaging the item as faulty or substandard. So it is as much a matter of character as wealth because you remember we were talking about how

Sarah: Yes.

Eric: Yeah. Wealthy people can have a tendency to, oh, put it on my tab, you know, like Bing was. So yes, absolutely. He is absolutely right. It is a matter of character, but it seems like wealth brings out the worst in people's character sometimes.

Sarah: I think it's just 1 of those, like, when you have the means to replace something at the drop of a hat, there's less

Eric: of Nobody.

Sarah: Yeah. And again, that's not everybody because obviously I'm sure there's things that people that are multibillionaires have that are priceless to them, obviously. But for those of us who maybe have a more scarce lifestyle where we lose something and it's gone, we can't just replace it. It might be more of a big deal to have it broken.

Eric: It breaks guitars.

Sarah: It's a great song.

Eric: It is. It's a great that's that's all 3 of those songs are great. It's in a great story too. Anyway, we also got an email. We did.

Actually, we got 2 emails. No. Actually, we got

Sarah: 3, actually.

Eric: Thought 3 emails. Yes.

Sarah: Yeah. Because there was

Eric: 1 of them was a very extensive and detailed analysis of season 4, which we will get to. Yeah. But not here, not now. We will save it for this mythical top 5 for season 4 episode that Sarah thinks is she's hallucinating that it's gonna happen. It's happening.

It's gonna happen. We'll save it for that because it was specific to season 4.

Sarah: Because we really wanna dig into it, and it it's it's a really well

Eric: written mail

Sarah: and there's yeah.

Eric: So There's so much there. Well written, very thoughtful.

Sarah: If we were to get into it now, it would take up

Eric: We wouldn't have an episode. Yeah. We really got the episode, and then

Sarah: you would be like, where's where's the episode? What happened? So there were we're gonna leave that 1 for the for the last the top 5 episode that is definitely going to happen. Because now Eric doesn't have a choice. Thank you, person who wrote us that email.

Eric: Well, you know, if if I didn't have to participate by making a list, I would be okay with it. I you know, I I'm fine with the old people's comments and lists. I know you're gonna force me to. I know. You're gonna beat me over the head until I do.

Anyway, we got another letter. And this writer says, I've been enjoying your podcast for just over a year now. I caught on to Remington Steele in the second year of its original run and was absolutely thrilled when channel 4 I'm not sure where channel 4 is, but anyway, reran the That

Sarah: feels like a Britain thing because my husband always talks about watching things on channel 4. So I'm gonna guess Britain, but I could be wrong.

Eric: Absolutely thrilled when channel 4 reran the show from the beginning over the following summer. From then on, I made it a point to never miss a new episode. Luckily, when I went away to college, I found like minded friends to watch the show with right to the unsatisfying end. It's been a real treat to revisit the show with you. So, yes, thank you.

Very, very

Sarah: Thank you very much.

Eric: That's awesome. Fun letter there. Do you wanna do the the third 1 here or do you want me to just go ahead

Sarah: and Yeah. I can I'm good. I can read it if you want.

Eric: Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Sarah: So this 1 says, hi, Eric and Sarah. I've been listening since the first season episodes debuted, but only now finding the motivation to write. Yay. This person wrote, there is a lot going on in the world of steel watching. Sarah, I love the Buffy references.

Yes.

Eric: Thanks. No. Oh, no. I see. No.

I I knew I should have done this 1 because then I could have just excised all of that stuff.

Sarah: No. No. No. No. No.

See, I knew there was a connection between Buffy and Edward. I knew it. They wrote, I love that show too, it's a crazy time for Buffy fans. It really is. And they heard me on Juliet Landau's revamped podcast trivia episodes.

So that's so cool. They were cheering me on while listening. For those of you who don't know what this person means, Juliet Landau was an actress on Buffy, she has her own rewatch podcast on Buffy. They did a Battle of the Buffy fans trivia last year. They're doing it again this season.

I haven't had a time to attempt to get into that contest yet. But it was basically like a head to head trivia thing. And I got past the first round, but unfortunately didn't get past the second round. So it was cool that somebody else heard me because, yay, I feel famous.

Eric: You're 15 minutes late.

Sarah: Yeah, that's it. That's all it is. And that's going to lead well into our episode today. Yeah, They also wrote, On this podcast, I don't recall a discussion of where to be able to stream Remington Steele. When the first season podcast episodes were released, Amazon Prime was the home for all the episodes for a couple of years, but the rights expired at the 2024.

Only the first and second seasons were available and only for purchase. I believe effective last Sunday, which is 03/15/2026 in this email, some episodes became available on Hallmark Plus, which I didn't know existed but now have a subscription through Apple TV. The problem is that the last episode of season 4 and all of season 5 is missing. Is that a problem? Is

Eric: that something Some people should not consider it a problem.

Sarah: That sounds more like the solution to me. Even worse, they edit the episodes like I've never seen before. They mute certain objectionable scenes and words. Examples, Butch Bemis's use of the word broad is muted in Let's Steal a Plot. Everything related to the Bedside Babes magazine is removed, which is pretty much most of the episodes.

So that would be interesting to see. And now you steal it, now you don't. All the slaps are edited out when Steele is kidnapped and slapped. How would you he's hit a lot.

Eric: I mean, you take it. Take a 43 minute show and edit it down to 15 That's that's awful.

Sarah: Yeah. And lots more. It's kind of funny, but still ridiculous for a 40 plus year old show that was on network television. It's It is ridiculous, especially when I feel like there is a lot more stuff out there. Even by Hallmark standards, that is more explicit, more over the top, more swear words, more whatever.

But wow. Okay. So for those of you who are looking for a place to stream it, it's there, but Yeah.

Eric: Well, we we haven't talked about streaming sources primarily because they change so often.

Sarah: Yeah. They really

Eric: do.

Sarah: It's like playing whack a mole.

Eric: Yes. And, of course, these podcasts hopefully have a longer life than just when we release them. And so, you know, if we said something just about it being on a certain location, then a year, 2 years from now, it might not be relevant.

Sarah: And I mean, I think a good chunk of us And honestly, if it's there and want to watch it, we've just, for now, as of this date, it is on that particular platform. But like Eric said, it could move. I bought the DVDs for that reason because I was sick of trying to And I still am sick of trying to Or you start something and then the rights run out and then you're midway through and it's gone. So frustrating.

Eric: In a subsequent email exchange with this person, they also indicated that the opening credits are edited as well.

Sarah: Interesting. Okay. Well, I'll finish the email and get to they the wrote back in the Buffyverse, The, Buffy reboot was cruelly canceled, that is true. I'm sorry to any any other Buffy fans that were listening to this, but apparently a particular network executive that was named by Sarah Michelle Geller essentially was not on board from the get go, and they axed it, which sucks.

Eric: And according to some reports, this network executive claimed that they didn't like the show

Sarah: And never liked

Eric: the simultaneously claiming that they had never seen

Sarah: Even the watched the entirety of it. Yeah. And apparently, they were also responsible. And I didn't watch this show, but a lot of people did. This show that Hilary Duff was on apparently was supposed to get a reboot as well, and he also was responsible for axing that.

So this looks like a pattern with this particular executive. So yeah, they wrote, I'm still hoping something might happen, but it's not looking good. That Hulu executive should be fired. I agree. Or at least removed from any involvement with the project.

In some good news, Firefly may get an animated series, but it's still dependent on fan support. I have mixed feelings about that personally, Mainly because it feels a bit more like a vanity project than it does anything that would push the story forward. And I don't know, after 20 some odd years, I wonder if it's, Oh, Hey, this person's commenting. They wrote, Hey, that's me. Took a while to get in the chat.

So yeah. They said, I appreciate your reasons for not mentioning streaming location. I wondered if I just missed you discussing it previously. Yeah. We hadn't just because of what Eric said, I didn't even know it was available for streaming anywhere, frankly, because I'm just using my DVDs usually.

So yeah, that's where it is right now. But apparently it's terrible.

Eric: Tomorrow it may not be. And the day after that, somewhere else.

Sarah: And then the other part of the email, but the saddest news is the passing of Nicholas Brennan who played Xander Harris. This is again for Buffy. He had a rough time in his personal life, but with bad behavior and other allegations. Newer fandom criticized his character, but Xander's behavior was sadly normal at the time. Not an excuse, but times were different.

And yeah, that's true. And here's the thing. I loved Xander as a character. I also had issues with Xander as a character, but I feel that way about all the characters on the show. I don't want to get too far into it because that's a Buffy podcast that someday may happen.

Eric: Can I tell you a little secret, Sarah? Sure. People have the same dilemma with people in the real world.

Sarah: True. Yeah. Well, is the thing. People are flawed. People are messy.

People are, And the actor as well as was indicated in the email, he was a victim of assault as a child. Horrible things happened to him. But then he grew up and became a perpetrator of similar tight, well, violent assaults in his personal life, along with his addiction problems and stuff like that. So he was a complicated person and there are complicated feelings about his passing. I think that's pretty relevant, but it is sad to see anybody struggle with stuff like that.

So that's all I'm going say about that. But to wrap up my steel watching comments, I can't believe we're nearing the end of the run of the show.

Eric: I know. As of this

Sarah: writing, steel in the spotlight is scheduled to record tomorrow, which would be today. That leaves 5 episodes for season 4 and 6 for season 5 plus the top 5 episodes. See? People like them.

Eric: No. They they they didn't he didn't this person did not say they liked them. They just referenced it because they know it's been something that has been forced on me.

Sarah: Do you know what do know what they just wrote in the comments? Please make Eric watch puppy, and that could be your next podcast. And I have thought about this. I have considered asking you to do it. I have considered it.

It has been considered.

Eric: Well, well, well, I mean, I'm

Sarah: we've been like top 5. So there

Eric: we've been going through it very slowly, and my wife and I, and I think we're in, like, the part partway through the second season. I would not be adverse or adverse. I would not be averse to that.

Sarah: Excellent. I'm doing the mister Burns, like so, yeah, they and they like the top 5.

Eric: So so evil.

Sarah: And they asked, have we given any thought to what we might be doing when we've completed all the episodes? And they suggested it might be funny to get our takes on those edited Hallmark Plus episodes. And although I think it would be, I don't have access to that particular platform. I don't even know if we can get it in Canada. So and it might just make me so angry I throw something at my TV and damage it.

So I don't know if I could do that. Just be so mad. I'd be like, what are you doing? Stab it.

Eric: Yeah. We have given consideration as to what we might do if if somebody drags me kicking and screaming to a Buffy podcast. We we may have to put anything past season 5 on Remington's deal on hold because, you know, there's there's contrary to what what they say, daylight savings time does not give us more time.

Sarah: No. It doesn't.

Eric: And You know, I've been for 66 years, I've been hoping it would, but sadly, it hasn't because I can use extra time. We

Sarah: can figure something out. We'll we we do have a whole list of ideas and and things that we're sort of mulling over and thinking about. We haven't come to any

Eric: Solid conclusions.

Sarah: We're working on it. We're working on it. Yes. Is the answer there. And then the end of the email here.

Remington Steele is my favorite show ever. And a lot of that is childhood nostalgia. I'm so grateful to both of you for the podcast. It's brought me a lot of enjoyment. I always look forward to new episodes.

Thanks so much. PS, Eric. I roll my eyes when you bring up a home improvement reference.

Eric: Why? Why would anybody roll their eyes at a home improvement reference?

Sarah: So I appreciate how some might feel with Sarah's Buffy references. Oof. Ouch. It's your podcast, so you do you. See if you can work in more fire Firefly references.

And I don't mind working in more I am all for Firefly references. Well, I'm

Eric: not averse to it, but the problem is it was such a short run show that there's not a lot to draw on.

Sarah: Hey, there's a podcast, Firefly. Anyway.

Eric: Anyway, I think we're done with this stuff, so let's get on to that stuff. And that stuff is season 4 episode 17, Steel in the Spotlight. Whoo. First aired 03/08/1986, written by Carrie Lynn Hart and John Sackmer and directed by Bert Brinkerhoff.

Sarah: And I think we did receive confirmation that Carrie is a male writer. Correct?

Eric: We I believe we did. Yes.

Sarah: Yeah. Because we were wondering about that.

Eric: Yes.

Sarah: The answer.

Eric: I went with the DVD liner notes because I thought that they were the best overall, compromise between the TV guide and the original synopsis. A TV magazine show hires Laura and Remington to crack 1 of Hollywood's greatest unsolved mysteries, the disappearance of an actress following her best friend's death. So there we go. That's a good 1. Now before we get started into the guts of the episode, there are some episode related things that we need to discuss.

First of all, is a very, very roundabout London, Ontario connection.

Sarah: Yes. I was so excited when you pointed this out. Canadians are always excited

Eric: to be

Sarah: you know, it's true. It's true. Anytime we're mentioned in any pop culture, we're always like, yay. We exist. Yay.

Thank you for including us. It's it's kinda sad, actually.

Eric: Actually, Canada is only a state of mind that doesn't actually exist. That's true. The I'm gonna say the guest star in this this episode. I know we've got a couple of others, but to me, the guest star is Rosemarie who plays Billy Young. Yeah.

Now she played a character named Sally Rogers on the old Dick Van Dyke show from the sixties. Sally Rogers was based on a character, actually a person named Selma Diamond, who most people nowadays would know as having played Selma Hacker on the first 2 seasons of the NBC television comedy series Night Court. But she started her Hollywood career as a writer for TV shows starting with the, Blue Ribbon Town with Groucho Marx, and that turned into a 65 week tenure with Marx's own show. She also wrote for Camel Caravan with Jimmy Durante and Gary Moore, the Dren show with Rudy Valley, Duffy's Tavern, the Kenny Baker show. She also wrote for radio, the radio versions of Ozzy and Harriet for 20 weeks, became a staff writer with let's see.

1 of the staff hired by comedy writer Goodman Ace to write for things like Danny Case, 19 forties radio show. She wrote for the big show, a 90 minute weekly program hosted by Tallulah Bankhead, collaborated with cartoonist Gil Fox, writing for his Genie comic strip that ran daily in the New York Herald Tribune, moved back to television as 1 of the writers for Sid Caesar and MJ and Koka's Your Show of Shows, as well as Sid Caesar's Caesar's Hour, which earned her an Emmy nomination. And oh, the Canadian connection? Yeah. She was born 08/05/1920 in London, Ontario, Canada.

Sarah: Woo hoo. Yeah. You know, you point out all those accomplishments, and we still get overshadowed by the fact that Justin Bieber was born here. So

Eric: Hey. You gotta take the bad with the good.

Sarah: Unfortunately. Yeah.

Eric: Now I do want to do something that we know don't normally get into, and that is a little bit of a deep dive on a guest star. And I think in this particular case, it's it's warranted. Rosemarie, she is old Hollywood, not in the same way that people like Dorothy Lemoore, Virginia Mayo, Lloyd Nolan from previous episode were, but still very much so and and I think overlooked. She was born in 1923. She was an actress, a singer, comedian, vaudeville performer with a career spanning 9 decades.

Sarah: Holy cow. That's amazing.

Eric: Included film, radio records, theater, nightclubs, and television. As a child performer in the late 19 twenties onward, she had a successful singing career under the stage name baby Rosemarie. In the late 19 twenties

Sarah: with Rosemarie's baby, I hope, because In

Eric: the late 19 twenties, at the age of 3, she started performing under the name Baby Rosemarie. At 5, she was offered a 7 year contract and became a radio star on the NBC Radio Network, made a series of films. She, at that time, had a deep voice and never sounded like a child, and so there were people who thought she was really a 30 year old midget.

Sarah: Oh, dear.

Eric: To counteract the rumors, NBC arranged for her to take a national stage tour. She appeared in some short films, including baby Rosemarie and the child wonder no. Baby Rosemarie, the child wonder, a Vitaphone short. And between 1930 and '38, she made 17 recordings. First issued in March 1932 was accompanied by Fletcher Henderson's Orchestra, 1 of the leading black American jazz orchestras of the day.

And around this time, about age 7, she began hanging out with guys like Bugsy Siegel and Al Capone.

Sarah: Oh, wow. Okay.

Eric: Mob bus the mob bosses loved her. And in in fact, Capone even insisted that she call him uncle Al and told her that if she ever wanted anything, ever needed anything, or ever had any problems with anybody, just call him, let him know, and he'd take care of it. Oh, yeah.

Sarah: Those are some people to have in your corner. I'm not saying good people,

Eric: but good people. She continued to appear in films through the 19 thirties, making shorts and 1 feature picture with W. C. Fields. She entered adulthood, began doing nightclub jobs, lounge performances.

She opened she was the opening act for Bugsy Siegel's newly built Flamingo Casino and Hotel in Las Vegas. The the first headline act they ever had there. I mean, that's how big she was. Because of the Flamingos organized crime ties, she had to seek permission to perform in other casinos but remained loyal to the boys at the Flamingo for the rest of her life. She also continued to work in radio.

Let's see. After 5 seasons of.

Sarah: Go ahead. I was just she has voice acting credits. I just checked up until 2003. So Yeah. Wow.

Eric: After 5 seasons on the Dick Van Dyke show, she costarred with Doris Day. She appeared in episodes of the Monkees.

Sarah: I love that show.

Eric: Later, had a semi regular seat on the upper center square of the original version of the Hollywood Squares. And because contestants tended to pick corner squares first, the phrase Rosemarie the block was uttered so often, she frequently joked that she should legally change her name to that.

Sarah: That's funny.

Eric: And anybody who's interested in learning more about Rosemarie and her amazing career and her significance in the entertainment industry, there's a great documentary about her life and career called Wait for Your Laugh, came out in 2017. And it is available on YouTube as a with ads view, but you can also get the DVD from, like, Amazon and such.

Sarah: I also looked at the IMDb trivia for this episode, and it said that she actually wasn't eager to take the part this character role. And they sweetened the deal by offering her 2 musical numbers that were then later cut for time, which sucks. Yeah. Because, you know, like

Eric: Yeah. Yeah. She she was a great singer. In fact, if you go back to the original Dick Van Dyke show, there's a number of episodes where various members of the cast sing, and she sings in a number of them. And she's got a great voice, very distinctive in the way she handles handles her her voice and singing and such.

So, yeah, it's it's a very interesting career. And like I said, very much a fixture in old Hollywood, even though her name these days isn't necessarily thought of in the same way that some of the other actors from that same era are.

Sarah: I think sometimes, and we've talked about this before, that 1 of the greatest strengths of this show has been some of their guest stars, because it's very easy for shows of this type to basically just hire, you know, whoever they can offer. Yeah. There's usually the assumption that that part's not that important, you know, as a

Eric: And they can be had for cheap.

Sarah: Exactly. But in this case, they keep getting these really good, whether they were super well known or not super well known, like Peter Jurassic in Dancer, Prancer, Donner and Steel, I don't think would have been as well known then as he was later on for things like Babylon 5. But he's so good. He's an amazing actor. Armin Shimmerman, same thing.

Or like all of these actors that later went on to do or were already doing amazing things at the time. And they just they appear on the show and they and they disappear into their parts, which is really cool. So, yeah.

Eric: Yeah. Some great guest stars. Anyway, let's go ahead and get into the episode. It starts with a fade in to the interior of Sally Benson's apartment. Now we don't know yet who Sally Benson is, but we do know that it's night.

It's 19 56. And the picture we see, glows with the saturated color and warmth reminiscent of a Kodak color print of the era, particularly a Kodachrome print. Anyway, as the camera moves through the apartment, we see several 1956 Life magazines strewn about and a newspaper whose headline proclaims, Ike leaves for Summit. A Coke bottle is on the coffee table sitting next to a lipstick marked glass with melted ice and a pill bottle. A stack of Elvis, Pat Boone, and Bill Haley records stands next to an RCA hi fi, and we hear the faint sporadic bursts of laughter from an unseen television set, and the camera finds articles of Sally's clothing tossed around the overstuffed doily covered furniture.

Sarah: So just hearing you do all of that also kind of and I guess I never really thought about this before, but makes me think of how well sometimes we criticize it like this, the platinum airplane, how silly it looked, but how well sometimes they dress a set to give it like that feel, like within Love Among the Steel, for example, with that 1930s atmosphere and the way that they've gone through all this trouble to put in these little details that you might not otherwise notice, but contribute to the whole picture in such a way that you are just kind of transported there, which not all TV shows might have taken the time to do so well. But yeah, this is amazing.

Eric: Yeah. I mean, it's it's like miniatures in science fiction movies. A lot of times what makes them look real is the small, details that they put in that you never actually see any. You can't see the detail. You see that there is detail.

Yeah. And that gives it the authenticity. That's Yeah, exactly. You're right. With with some of these shows like Love Among the Steel and this 1, it's the little details that that just give it that ambiance.

Anyway, next we see a floral print dress, a white lace slip, a pair of silk stockings, a garter belt. And the camera also finds that Sally Benson is sprawled across the sofa. She is 30, beautiful, and quite dead. And we hear

Sarah: Sorry. I don't mean to laugh. That's not funny, but just the way you said it. 30, beautiful, and quite dead. It sounds like a book.

You know?

Eric: Yeah. Well, I'll have to admit I stole that from the script. And then we hear 2 drunks walking on a railroad track. 1 turns to the other and he says, hey, Fred, this is the longest flight of stairs I've ever climbed. The other says, it's not the steps I mind.

It's these low banisters. And next we see a stranger. His back is to us, Sally's nude body in his arms. Her head and legs swing lifelessly as he carries her to the bathroom and as we hear Rosemarie, AKA Billy Young singing in the background. The room is art deco, black and white tile, pedestal sink, cloth footed tub.

The stranger lays Sally on the bare tile floor. And Sally's hair is fanned out beneath her. Her red lipstick stands out brightly against her milky skin. And we see the medicine cabinet. The mirror door swings open too quickly to catch the stranger's reflection as he takes a clean razor blade from the shelf.

Next, we see the stranger kneeling beside Sally, razor blade in 1 hand, and he takes her wrist.

Sarah: Not to nitpick this dude, but like when they just for prints, he's not wearing any gloves and he's putting the razor blade in her hand and his prints This are all over

Eric: is in the nineteens, the early nineties. You know? True.

Sarah: That's true.

Eric: Yeah. 19 fifties.

Sarah: But then they still have the, like, print dusting capabilities. Hillary Queen certainly did. Probably.

Eric: But, yeah, they might not have yeah. If it if it if they didn't have any reason to.

Sarah: That's true. If they say it looks like a suicide. Yeah.

Eric: Yeah. It's a

Sarah: good point.

Eric: And and let's face it. We know both from previous episodes and from reality that sometimes, you know, people's investigations of crimes can be directed certain ways and can be kind of, you know, it's not a problem. Here here, Steve. Go take a nice vacation.

Sarah: You know? Fair enough. Yep. Anyway

Eric: Cool. Next, we are looking through the partially open bathroom door as we see Sally's bare shapely legs, and the stranger steps across them and comes toward us. Seen only from the waist down, we move with the stranger as he crosses the room and passes a tiny screened television in an elaborate cabinet with hinged doors. As the stranger leaves, we hold on the television's fuzzy black and white picture, And we cut to see the same black and white image of Billy Young. Yay.

Sarah: Love the transitions in this episode. Sorry. Was just waiting for this because, like, every single almost every single scene

Eric: Mhmm.

Sarah: Has this beautiful transition where they will hold on 1 image and it turns into something else in a different place in a different time or what have you. And it's just

Eric: really well done.

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah.

Eric: Yeah. So you see the image of Billy on the television set from the 1950s, and then it's the same image at the same place on this brand new monitor in the agency offices.

Sarah: It's just really well, like all of these transitions are so well done and that's, you know, it's something that we don't know. Again, I don't think people would normally clock it, but that's the director's choice because the directors, they get the scripts, but then they choose how to interpret visually those scripts. And it's like the 1 for the comic book 1, Steel Illustrated or Illustrated Steel. That director, she decided to get really creative with how those comic strips were depicted. And this one's really creative with the transitions too.

So I just wanted to point that out.

Eric: Yeah. And so as as the image pulls out, we see that it's a modern TV monitor or actually a modern video monitor on a stand with other video equipment. And we also see a brunette woman. Some places she's referred to as redhead in the transcript that I have from the

Sarah: She looks like a redhead to me. I saw it as red.

Eric: It's hard hard hard to tell, but to me, it could have been in between. But anyway, she's there. And then there's also a blonde man wearing a silk jacket, the back of which is the LA spotlight. And we, of course, recognize that we are in the agency's office and Laura and Steele are there as well. You see that the video monitors on a mobile equipment rack and as the song on the video monitor ends, we hear the applause from the video and then Laura, Steele, Mildred and the as of yet unidentified brunette woman who we will learn is named Windsor Thomas, which is an unusual first name, especially for a woman.

Sarah: Yeah. Well, and also anyone who's ever been to Windsor, Ontario, oof, ouch. Wouldn't wanna be named after that city. No offense if there's anyone listening, but it's kind of the armpit of Ontario.

Eric: Well, so Windsor Thomas, along with Steele, Mildred, and Laura, and the blonde man who we will learn is named Kyle.

Sarah: There's always a Kyle. No

Eric: offense to join in the applause.

Sarah: Can I just say for Mildred, she looks amazing? That dress, love it. Love it on Mildred. Just saying. I mean, we don't normally comment on Mildred's clothes because it's usually the same kind of dresses, but I don't know, something about that red sash.

Eric: Yeah. Like against the

Sarah: black, it's like, go Mildred. She's looking to stand out is all I'm

Eric: saying. Yes. Well, Mildred admiringly says, what a set of pipes. You should have heard her sing Where or When. Now in the script, the song references I Can't Get Started.

Curiously, curiously, Where or When is from a 1937 musical called Babes in Arms by Richard Rogers and Lawrence Hart. The musical includes a character, which is a former child star named baby Rose Owens. Oh. You wanna tell me that's not don't don't try and tell me it's a coincidence. It I can't I won't buy it.

Sarah: Yeah. That's like a wink.

Eric: So I think the fact that the song reference in the script was changed to the song that we get is intentional because there there's a connection there. Rosemarie didn't star in this musical, but I think the character in the musical is definitely a reference to her. Anyway, grinning, Steele responds to Mildred's adulation with a somewhat sardonic, really? And Laura is surprised that Mildred is familiar with all this.

Sarah: That makes sense. This woman would be way closer to Mildred's time than anybody else's. Yeah. Like, don't know why they'd be surprised by that. Plus, Mildred, we've seen in past episodes, is up on her pop culture.

She saw Sonya and Gerald Steinmetz on Irv. She watches PBS. Yeah, I don't know why that's a surprise to anybody, frankly.

Eric: Yeah. Laura is surprised that Mildred is familiar with it. And Mildred says, you bet. Explaining that back before she did Showtime Cavalcade, Herbert used to take her to the club oasis and they'd hear her sing Where or When? And that was their song.

And Laura grins a bit nervously, perhaps because as Steele asks with some confusion, I thought your husband's name was Walter. I love Mildred. It was. She confirms as if she doesn't understand Steele's confusion and then with annoyance asks, you think that schlub would take me dancing? No.

This was before Walter. And she laughs and It's then

Sarah: like Mildred also didn't have a life before she got married. We have seen this woman pick up men all throughout this series. Like, Mildred has Or constantly got

Eric: have been hit on her. Yes.

Sarah: Or turning them down. Yeah. Mildred Mildred, she's doing well. Well,

Eric: as she's leaving the office, the blonde man, Kyle, asks why she didn't marry Herbert. And Mildred looks back over her shoulder, pauses, and then says, he was a little light in the loafers.

Sarah: And Is that a reference to him being cheap? No. Does it does it mean he was short? I'm I'm missing out on what Oh, light in the wow. That 1 flew right over my head.

Eric: Yeah. Okay. Now, in the script that we have, which is from several months earlier than than the episode was shot and released, It's a little bit of a less direct reference with Mildred saying that, hey, that was 1956. Back then, the secret word for a girl was security.

Sarah: Oh, okay. So she was a beard. Got it. Okay. I just I I had never heard light in the loafers as being a reference for I was trying to figure out what that meant.

I was like, cheap, short? I don't get it. Nope. Okay. That makes sense.

Eric: Mildred closes the door behind her as she leaves. Steele reaches over and picks up a publicity photo of not Billy Young. Don't know who it is, but I know who it isn't. It's not Billy Young. Not the first time they've had a little boo boo like this.

Anyway, Steele asks what happened to her as he and Laura lead the other 2 to the couch. Good question, Kyle says. We'd like you to find her, Windsor ads. Laura wonders why. And despondent, Kyle realizes that they haven't been following the station's promotion campaign.

Windsor explains that she and Kyle are hosting TV reunion week. LA spotlight is gathering the casts from some classic fifties TV shows like Showtime Cavalcade. And, of course, Steele realizes fairly quickly that the problem is they can't locate Billy Young. So Windsor turns to Steele, giving him a seductive smile, telling him that he certainly cuts right to the heart of the matter. Don't like Windsor.

I'm sorry. I don't like her.

Sarah: She I have

Eric: I see you have mixed feelings.

Sarah: I do. I do though. I do have mixed feelings about Windsor because there are points where I really like her and I understand why she's doing what she's doing. There are other points where I really don't like her.

Eric: Stick with that. Yeah. Stay with the hate. I'm

Sarah: not gonna stay with the hate. I like complicated characters, so I'm good with with my my mixed feelings about Windsor, but I I don't hate her.

Eric: Well, Steele, eating up the flattery and the flirtatiousness from Windsor, despite the fact that it's so obvious that it's it's put on.

Sarah: Oh, for sure.

Eric: He suggested see, he suggestively says that it's all part of the investigative game, you know, to penetrate, to probe.

Sarah: They love that word, don't they? I bet the Hallmark Channel gonna censor the word probe. Probably penetrate too. I mean, let's

Eric: guess it. Well, my question is, what's Steele doing? I mean, he's got a good thing going with Laura, who's in my opinion, miles and miles ahead of Windsor. I mean, she's obviously all fake up, and her personality is as fake as her face.

Sarah: So met mister Steele, though? Have you met him? He it's it's not that he wants to get with Windsor, but any woman that is gonna see Mildred.

Eric: Well, I know.

Sarah: Okay. Mildred followed him around flattering him. He loved it. He eats it up. This is not a is not a matter of like, I want to sleep with her because she's hot.

This is like, oh, there's a woman flattering me. Do go on. That's who he is. And it's a good way

Eric: to talking Are about men in general?

Sarah: No. I'm talking about Mr. Steele in general. I mean, this is a good way to set up. This is this is a fantastic way to set up what happens to Laura as well.

So it makes a lot of sense to have him like sitting there like, oh, tell me how wonderful I am. Keep going.

Eric: Yeah. Okay. Fine. Anyway, Kyle, who is obviously, in order to Windsor's approach to journalism.

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: Flatly asks, so you'll find her. And Steele barely able to take his eyes off Windsor says, oh, yes. Just a matter of hours. Not not certain he believes it. Kyle responds super.

How? Well, and of course, playing on her supposed to lure Windsor asks, yes, Remington.

Sarah: How? Love this.

Eric: This. Fascinated. She's just

Sarah: she's and and this is funny too because she's just enjoying watching him squirm.

Eric: Yes. Because she knows that that she she knows what she's doing and she knows how he's responding to it. So, yes. For sure. Anyway, said Steele suddenly is lost as to how to respond to a question of how is he is he going to do it?

Saying, yes. How? How indeed? And then after a long pause

Sarah: Skip trace.

Eric: Laura, with obvious, though subdued annoyance at Steele slobbering over Windsor, quietly says, skip trace. And Steele, grabbing onto the life preserver Laura has just thrown in, says, yes, precisely. And when Windsor asks what skip trace is, Steele quickly punts, asking Laura to explain the intricacies of skip trace to Windsor.

Sarah: This is the time when unnamed woman suddenly becomes very critical to a steel.

Eric: Yeah. But but still unnamed. Yes. Yeah. Anyway, Windsor is impressed commenting that not many men are willing to admit that a woman with looks can have brains too.

As an aside, though not taking her eyes off steel, she tells Laura that she is so lucky to have a boss like him.

Sarah: This is dad at the playground syndrome. Is this is what this is. Okay? Dad at the playground syndrome. This is what happens

Eric: What when is that?

Sarah: Okay. So when when a mom takes her kid to the playground and, know, plays with her kid, she's she's a mom at the playground. Dad takes a kid to the playground. And suddenly he's surrounded by women going, Oh my gosh, you are such a good dad. You're out here with your child.

You're you're you're looking you're babysitting. Dad's playground syndrome. Right? They're doing the exact same thing mom would do, but suddenly very sexy. Hello, dad.

Eric: Anyway, perhaps realizing that he's going to pay for his comments later, you'd steal glasses at Laura and with obvious discomfort responds, isn't she? That's lucky. And, of course, with dry sarcasm, Laura calls Steele a regular Phil Donahue. And, of course, the tone of her voice and her sarcasm is not lost on Steele. But Laura goes ahead and unenthusiastically explains that skip trace is a systemic method they use for finding people saying that 1 begins first with the most obvious sources, such as Windsor asks in an overly solicitous tone.

And then we cut to Laura in her office holding the stack of documents as she says, phone listings.

Sarah: She Another really good cut. Can I just quickly poke in here for for the Phil Donahue reference? Because some people might not know who this is. As a Canadian, I've heard of him, but had never watched him because a lot of that stuff didn't

Eric: come along. His claim to fame is that he's married to Marlo Thomas.

Sarah: I didn't know that.

Eric: Or was.

Sarah: Yes. But according to Wikipedia, the arbiter of all knowledge, actually, I didn't know he only died in 2024. Yeah. Lived a long life. Yeah.

He was an American media personality, writer, film producer, and creator and host of the Phil Donahue Show. A television program later just known as Donahue was the first popular talk show to feature a format that included audience participation. Had a 29 year run on national television, which is kind of insane. And his show is often focused on issues that divide liberals and conservatives in The United States, such as abortion, consumer protection, civil rights, war issues. His most frequent guest was Ralph Nader, for whom Donahue campaigned in 2000.

Donahue also briefly hosted a talk show on MSNBC from 2002 to 2003, and he was 1 of the most influential talk show hosts and was often referred to as the king of daytime talk. Oprah Winfrey has said if it weren't for Phil Donahue, there would never have been an Oprah show. So just wanted to kind of point that out because I didn't know much about him other than he hosted a talk show. And I've heard him referenced in other American things, but I've never actually seen anything that, you know, I've never seen the show. So

Eric: And his was generally not 1 of those shows where chairs were thrown.

Sarah: No, no. And it's funny because like reading the description for that, and I'm thinking that show probably wouldn't work now because people are so polarized that you wouldn't be able to get 2 people from 2 sides of any 1 issue without chairs being thrown, I feel like. Well,

Eric: was that guy that did the talk show, the glasses and the kind of curly hair? And he's Springer. Always Yeah. Bringing on, you know, the ex wife and the ex wife's ex boyfriend.

Sarah: That was, that wasn't even real. Like oftentimes people were coached or told what to do or, you know, lot of those stories weren't, weren't entirely accurate.

Eric: Just like an episode of Home Improvement. Oh, sorry. Wow.

Sarah: That was a real, that was a sad attempt

Eric: to shoehorn that in there.

Sarah: But speaking of connections to London, Ontario, Jenny Jones of the Jenny Jones show, she was from London, Ontario. Sorry. See that segue? That was good. Anyway, keep going.

Sorry.

Eric: Anyway, yes, we're in Laura's office. Laura's mentioning phone listings and she turns to Mildred and Mildred, who already has a stack of papers and answers, Bupkis, service disconnected 1956. By the way, Bupkis.

Sarah: Didn't we talk about this 1 already?

Eric: Yeah, I think so. We will recap. Yes. Okay. Buckus and Goat Droppings.

The official Dick Van Dyke Show book by Vince Waldron tells an interesting story about the word buccas and the episode of the same name on the Dick Van Dyke Show. Sam Denoff, 1 of the co writers for that episode in the song, had heard his mother use the word Bubkas when he was growing up, and he had always been told it meant nothing. Denoff's parents often attended live tapings of the Dick Van Dyke show, and they were in the audience the night the Bubkas episode was filmed. Danoff's mother thought that the episode was funny, but afterward told him that he couldn't put it on the air. When he asked why not, she said, don't you know what babkas means?

And he said he knew that it meant nothing. And his mother told him that nothing was the loose translation for the Yiddish word bupkis, but the literal meaning was goat droppings, and goat dung was worth nothing. Don't you

Sarah: just love it, though, when parents, like, openly lie to you to cover for like, I was told for They years didn't

Eric: lie. They just kind of left out part of the truth.

Sarah: I was told for years that I wasn't allowed to go into the liquor store with my parents because they wouldn't allow anybody under the age of 19 inside the the LCBO, which was completely untrue. Just didn't want to deal

Eric: with it. Unaccompanied.

Sarah: But they

Eric: didn't want somebody unaccompanied in there under there.

Sarah: No, but I could have gone in with my parents while they were shopping, but they didn't. They told me that I just wasn't allowed in. It was, I guess, probably to prevent me from trying to get in underage. I don't know. Told me that and they told me that it was illegal to turn the light on in your car, the interior light, then you get arrested for it.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I was told some stuff.

Eric: No. Now it is illegal to take the tag off your mattress. I

Sarah: have done that. I'm a rebel. Anyway, keep going.

Eric: Anyway, Steele asks about DMV and Laura says, no. License expired 1956. And then Laura asks, well, what about Screen Actors Guild? Membership dropped 1956, Steele informs her. Legal records?

Mildred asks. No marriage, no name change, no death certificate. And Laura comments that it's as if the woman disappeared from the face of the earth 30 years ago. And then just then, as she spots Windsor, Kyle, and a cameraman entering the office, Mildred utters an, uh-oh, then adds that they have company. Steele lets out a groan.

Lord gives out with a great. She puts her hand on his shoulder and says that she's gonna let him explain to Barbara Walters out there just how far they've gotten.

Sarah: Okay. Barbara Walters. We've got another, there's a lot of references to American television personalities here. This 1 I did know a bit more about because I've seen some

Eric: of her Barbaro was that.

Sarah: American broadcast journalist, television personality known for her interviewing ability and popularity with viewers. She appeared as a host of numerous television programs, including Today, ABC News, and The View. Walters was a working journalist from 1951 until her retirement in 2014. She died in 2022. She was inducted into the Television Hall of Fame in 1989, received a Lifetime Achievement Award from the NATAS in 2000 and a star on the Hollywood Walk Of Fame in 2007.

So that's kind of cool. Some of the people she's interviewed during her career, she interviewed every sitting US president and first lady from Richard Nixon and Pat Nixon to Barack and Michelle Obama. She also interviewed both Donald Trump and Joe Biden, although not when either was president. And she gained acclaim and notoriety for interviewing subjects such as Fidel Castro, Anwar Sadat, Katherine Hepburn, Sean Connery, Monica Lewinsky, Hugo Chavez, Vladimir Putin, just Saddam Hussein, and Bushar Al Assad. So she's interviewed some people.

Wow. Can you imagine having the chance to sit down and talk to all of those different types of people for like interviews and stuff like that? That would be crazy.

Eric: What was what's even crazier is that if you ever heard her talk, she had a slight speech impediment.

Sarah: Oh, yeah.

Eric: And yet despite that, she managed to make her way in the the media.

Sarah: I think it humanized her. Think some like it somehow it made her able to ask questions that other people might not respond as well to.

Eric: But I can imagine that that at the time that she was breaking in, was a that was a challenge. Oh, for sure.

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Eric: Anyway, yes, as I said that this Laura puts her hand on Steele's shoulder and lets him take the explanation. But then with a sudden modesty and, of course, trying to avoid responsibility, Steele reminds her that, you know, this is her agency. And she pushes him up from the chair and toward the door into the office and reception and telling him to go. Yep. And he he walks into reception, Lauren Mildred following, and cheerfully greets his guests, and Windsor apologizes for being late.

Their remote segment ran a little longer than planned. Nude skydiving Kyle explained in the shape of his head. Tough to cover. I'll bet Mildred comments with a slight attitude.

Sarah: I'm just trying to picture how that works because you've gotta secure the fact to yourself. So that's gonna get some crevices.

Eric: I don't

Sarah: I don't know. Yeah.

Eric: Especially when those those lower straps around your head. Yeah.

Sarah: That's what I'm that was what I was trying to avoid.

Eric: Yeah. Yeah. That's why I got

Sarah: I think I covered that with crevices.

Eric: Well, no. You cover crevices with something else. Oh. Anyway anyway, Windsor jumps right into the mess asking, where do we find Billy Young? And Laura starts to say something.

And it's like, it's almost like she's having second thoughts about letting Steele handle it. But course, Steele jumps right in and in a professional tone begins to explain that, well, this trace skip, skip trace, Laura corrects in a somewhat overly helpful tone. Yep. And, course, Windsor gives Laura kind of a curious glance at that and Steele gives her a kind of dismissive glance at that. And he continues without acknowledgment saying that it's taken a little longer than expected.

You see, I've allowed miss Holt to lead this investigation as part of her ongoing apprenticeship.

Sarah: Okay. So 2 things here. 1, he could have used Mildred for this because she is apprenticing them. Mhmm. But he chose to throw Laura Laura under the bus just because he's a petty drama queen, I love it.

But also that curious look that Windsor gives to Steele when she corrects him. Part of the reason why I have mixed feelings because I think she clocks here that Laura is actually the, maybe not the owner of the agency or anything, but she's smarter than Steele is making her out to be and smarter than

Eric: And Steele's maybe not quite as smart as

Sarah: Yeah, that maybe he's not as competent because she's used to working with, I'm not going say incompetent men, but she's used to being underestimated. She's used to having people see her as 1 thing, even though she's trying to break into news and do

Eric: some I more serious will say it for you. She's used to working with men who take credit for her work.

Sarah: Yeah. So yeah. So she sees Laura.

Eric: She say you didn't say it. I said it.

Sarah: She sees Laura, and I think she's clocked that Laura knows what she's doing and that Steele is maybe not as

Eric: But I don't give her credit for that because to give her credit for that means that she how how does how do I explain it? I I know what I'm trying to think, but I I don't know how to say it. She doesn't view this as Laura being the competent 1 and saying, oh, you know, she deserves my respect. It's, Oh, Laura's the competent 1. She's the 1 I have to manipulate.

Sarah: Oh, yeah. Because she's also So this is where the mixed feelings comes in because she's also shrewd and manipulative and she knows how to get what she wants, probably because she's in an entertainment industry where she's valued more mostly for her looks than she is for any of her other ideas. She's using

Eric: I'm sorry. I'm not impressed with her looks.

Sarah: But those are the looks that were considered fashionable and attractive

Eric: in the

Sarah: 80s, right? The heavy makeup, the

Eric: big hair. So

Sarah: like she's seeing her opportunity because that's how she's had to survive. It's probably why she's even doing spotlight because it was the closest she could get to what she's actually wanting to be doing. So there's, there's a

Eric: We find that out to be true.

Sarah: Yeah. There's respect and there's also manipulation involved. And so that's why I kind of like

Eric: I don't think there's any respect at all.

Sarah: She has respect for Laura, but I do think she has respect for Laura. But I also think that she sees Laura as her opportunity to get what she wants. And so therefore she's

Eric: going to take no respect at all. No respect at all.

Sarah: Okay.

Eric: No, you're wrong on that 1. There is no respect from Windsor.

Sarah: Anyway, I think I think Windsor respects Laura.

Eric: No. No. Think she does No. She just views Laura as she's the 1 I've gotta manipulate. There's no respect there.

There she if she if she respected her, she wouldn't look at her as a piece of meat to be manipulated.

Sarah: She was looking at steel as a piece of meat to be manipulated too.

Eric: That's right. Because she does not respect him either.

Sarah: I I think it's more that she realizes that Laura like, I I think the risk if she didn't respect that Laura was competent, she wouldn't know that she was the 1 to manipulate. That makes sense.

Eric: You're entitled to be wrong. Anyway, Windsor grins at Steele, telling him with insincere flattery that he is a marvel. And Steele gives a grin of false embarrassment. Please, please throw me into the Briar patch.

Sarah: Dip me in chocolate and throw me to the lesbians? Sorry.

Eric: Okay. Laura gives him a hard look and with undisguised disgust calls him a real prize. And you can just hear her thinking, okay, he is insane.

Sarah: Prize for what? No. Prize bowl, prize load of crap, prize, you know, it's it's open for interpretation.

Eric: Yes. Booby prize. Yeah. Anyway, Steele continues to dig himself in deeper with false humility by telling Windsor that it's been a struggle to stop himself from hurrying things along, but how else is she going to learn? This is

Sarah: this is why she hasn't slept with him yet. Right here. It's it's not the trust issue. It's not anything. It's literally that the second she starts to consider it, he turns around and opens his mouth.

Eric: Anyway, Kyle Kyle, with obvious disgust at the apparent lack of progress due to Laura's inexperience, has asked if she's found out anything yet. Well, Windsor and Steele look to Laura as well as Kyle while the cameraman continues to stand back from the group. And apparently, he's not getting paid except as an extra, so he can't join the rest of the actors. Laura states that the trail goes cold immediately after Billy's last television appearance in 1956. She seems to have covered her tracks.

And, of course, Windsor seizes on that phrase saying, covered her tracks? You mean she's deliberately disappeared? And Laura nods saying it's a possibility. Their preliminary check shows that she simply vanished. Now Windsor begins tapping her fingers together, a gleeful look on her face as she begins to pace.

Then she turns and exclaims, it's terrific. It's great. And Mildred is confused as, why is this great? And Windsor begins waving her hands in the air as if spreading out her ideas in front of her. Tonight on Ellie Spotlight, beauty, talent, she had it all.

What happened to Billy Young? She's not wrong. Sex and drugs kind of held her house with a lascivious grin on his face. Yeah.

Sarah: But here's the thing. She's not wrong. That is entertainment. That is Everybody loves an unsolved mystery. There's a whole TV show called Unsolved Mysteries, right?

So the minute you have an unsolved Hollywood mystery, that's even more intriguing to people. Even if they had never heard of her prior to this, it would be fascinating to watch. And she's right as well when she says it doesn't matter if they find her or not, because that question is the more interesting part of things.

Eric: It's clickbait.

Sarah: Clickbait. Yeah. It's clickbait before there was clickbait because it's almost better if you don't know the answer because then it lingers in your mind and you can do

Eric: you don't solve the problem, you can benefit from the problem.

Sarah: Pretty much. So I can see why she would be absolutely thrilled with this because, yeah, like I said, it's almost better if they don't find her because then people can't be disappointed by the answer.

Eric: Well, she goes on, another of Hollywood's unsolved mysteries. Why, it'll be bigger than the reunion itself, she gushes. Then she asks if she can follow the investigation, watch a crack detective grapple with a 30 year old puzzle, and with more of his trademarked faux embarrassment. Jesus. While he supposes that it would be a thrill for the viewers to take them inside the deductive process.

Observe how the and of course, he doesn't get to finish. Laura interrupts him saying that she's not meaning to be the wet blanket here, but she does caution him. What if they can't find Billy Young? And I think that's a subtle reminder to him that, hey, it's her agency and she's supposed to be the 1 making this sort of decision.

Sarah: Well, I actually think it's also her like pointing out that if they're literally having cameras follow them around and they don't solve the mystery, it might not look great for the agency similar to

Eric: Well, that's that's part of what what she's mean. What I'm meaning here by saying it's her her agency and yeah, she doesn't want to get into that. But I think also maybe she's seen the effect that Windsor's having on steel and she wants to just cut that thing off right now. Sure. And that was not a luring about a joke.

Still grimaces until he's saved by Windsor who says that it doesn't matter because it's still a great story. Maybe even better, like you said, like the Loch Ness monster, Kai O'Hare.

Sarah: But the Loch Ness monster's real. Okay? I've been to Loch Ness, and I'm sorry, but there is something in that lake. I have been there. I haven't seen the monster, but, you know, Nessie's a bit shy.

You kinda have to, like, coax her out, find the right treats. She's there

Eric: anyway. Steele commends Kyle on his perceptive take of things. And Windsor continues gushing saying that it's still great publicity for all of them. She tells Dennis, the cameraman, to start rolling. She wants to get all this on tonight's show.

Steele stands giddy with excitement Please. To run back to his office to get his jacket while Laura makes 1 last attempt to put a damper on his exuberance. But as he's headed toward the office, he jerks to a stop when Windsor tells Dennis to focus on Laura. And Steele looks at Laura in confusion, and Laura looks at Windsor in surprise. And why sure, Windsor says, showing her shift in her manipulative flattery from Steele to Laura.

She says, she's in charge of this 1 right now. Right? Female detective leads search for actress. There's her angle. And Steele, has been inching his way back to Laura's side, grimaces realizing that he's no longer the focus of Windsor's attentions.

Sarah: Deflates. Can see just the, like, like the balloon

Eric: down on the ground. Bad image, bad image. I wasn't. Laura starts to protest frowning. And of course, steel steps away from her and towards the television people to kind of circle around.

Windsor asks Dennis how Laura looks. The camera loves her, these answers enthusiastically. And Steele having stepped around Windsor and company is now around behind Mildred's desk and by her side. Laura continues to protest, but partway through her protest pauses and then with a spouse, what do you mean the camera loves me? And Kyle gives her a lecherous grin explaining that she doesn't have a bad angle.

Sarah: He's out of line, but he's not wrong.

Eric: Dennis agrees and then instructs her not to wear white or narrow stripes. It looks bad on camera.

Sarah: Which is funny because she's on camera right now in white, and we've commented before how I think she looks good in white. So

Eric: Yeah. Well, maybe LA Spotlight has lower grade equipment.

Sarah: Maybe. Yeah.

Eric: Windsor grabs her microphone, steps over to stand beside Laura, then begins speaking to the camera. This is LA spotlight talking with Laura Holt, detective partner of Remington Steele. Laura, what do you plan to do to solve the 30 year old mystery of Billy Young? And with a nervous lightheartedness, Laura laughs saying that she hopes to solve it quickly and Steele gives kind of a half hearted smile in response. Mildred smiles, turns to look at Steele, and then frowns at his attitude and facial expression.

And in a somewhat more serious tone, though still casual, Laura explains that there really aren't any shortcuts to this kind of work. They just have to use good old reliable shoe leather. And, of course, Windsor responds, I'll bet you do. And trying to ingratiate herself with Laura through flattery, her go to for manipulation adds tough job for a tough woman. And then she asks, what's your next move?

And as Laura begins to answer, we are suddenly seeing the interview on television sitting on a cabinet. Camera pulls

Sarah: transition. Back

Eric: The camera pulls back to reveal a room cluttered with cabinets, bookshelves, a coffee table, and a man sitting in a padded chair holding a folded newspaper, smoking a cigarette. A man who we will learn is named Jake Slater. And from the script, I love this line. I this this script has a lot of really good descriptive stuff in it. Script says, 30 years ago, this place was the cat's pajamas.

It hasn't changed. 30 years ago, Jake was the cat's pajamas too.

Sarah: That's good. I like that.

Eric: Anyway, he's motionless as he listens to Laura say that they will question anyone who knew Billy Young, old friends, contacts, acquaintances, people she worked with. And on the screen, we see the camera move in on Laura. As the man hears Laura promise that if Billy Young is out there, Remington Steele Investigations will find her. He pulls the cigarette from his mouth, angrily smashes it into the ashtray on the side table beside the him side table beside him, slams the newspaper down, and then stands. He stomps across the room to a cabinet as we hear Windsor on the television implore that if anyone watching has information regarding the whereabouts of Billy Young to please contact LA Spotlight at 555-4321.

The man pulls a wooden box out of the cabinet that he's moved in front of. He sets it down on a side table, reaches over to pick up a key from the cabinet that's the TV is sitting on, turns back to the box, unlocks it, and then opens it. He reaches in, pulls out a cloth bundle. And as we hear Kyle announce, that's all for tonight's LA spotlight. Join Windsor night tomorrow when we check out the latest craze or the latest fitness craze to sweep the Southland.

From the script, nude aerobics.

Sarah: I'm sensing a theme. Can I just point out what I wrote down for

Eric: for

Sarah: actually, did you did you say what happened with the gun yet?

Eric: No. I I I'm gonna say the man opens the bundle and pulls out a revolver. He opens the cylinder, checks that it's loaded, snaps the cylinder closed, then shoves the gun down his pants.

Sarah: And my notes say, we see the man pull a gun out of the box and put it in his pants. Eric's favorite place. Yes. If you wanna shoot your junk off, this is how you

Eric: do it. That's how you do it. Yes, it is. Next, we see a close-up studio portrait of a very young Billy and hear Laura speak. Thank you for calling us, miss Vance.

And then she was such a lovely girl, don't you think, is the response that miss Vance gives as the camera moves down and focuses on an inscription at the bottom of the photo. There were never such devoted sisters. All my love, Billy. We cut to see Laura and Steele standing next to a piano. The piano has pictures sitting on the top, including the 1 we just saw, and sitting on the bench of the piano is Patsy Vance.

From the script. Patsy Vance, a faded star of television's live age now in her late sixties, forgotten and wishing to forget the last 25 years. The living room, like its owner, was once grand but suffers from neglect. We can almost smell the must. There are photographs everywhere and other memorabilia from Patsy's performing days.

It's as if all life stopped in this house somewhere around 1960. Another great description from the script.

Sarah: It is a really great description. And again, another really fantastic set dressing for this apartment because you can, you can see that and you can see it with the way that Ms. Vance is dressed Mhmm. And like the actress that plays her is fantastic, but just like all of it is really well done.

Eric: Yeah. Anyway, Laura, looking at the photograph, comments that it's an unusual inscription. After all, Patsy and Billy weren't sisters, were they? And Patsy chuckles and explains, no. That's our song, our signature on the show.

Oh, the audience loved it. And she sings the first phrase of the song to Laura and Steele and then seems to disappear into her memories. When Laura calls her name, Patsy returns her attention back to Laura. But it's as if she's lived far more moments in her past in the last few minutes than have actually passed in reality. As she picks up the song at the end of the chorus, and Lord help the sister who comes between me and my man.

And as she concludes, she begins laughing, happy to be reliving the moments. Steele claps. Laura nods. Stiff smile on her face. And after telling applauding and telling her bravo, Steele reminds Patsy that she told them on the phone that she could tell them where Billy was.

And she corrects him saying that she didn't say that, just that she knew Billy very well. And Laura and Steele exchanged glances that say, this is gonna be a waste. And with annoyance, Laura demands to know if Patsy knows where Billy is. And after a slight pause where she seems to be debating about how much to say, Patsy says, no. Laura straightens up, puts out her hand to grab Steele's arm and announces that they don't need to waste any more of missus Vance's time.

Translation, we're wasting our time. More accurately, miss Vance is wasting our time. And they begin to walk away headed toward the door. Patsy Vance stands beginning to walk from the piano toward the center of the living room in the couch, calling out to Laura that even though she doesn't know where Billy is, she knows why Billy disappeared.

Sarah: I think this character is really interesting in the sense that she we've talked about how this, about this before, you've got some people that if they are older and don't have anybody else in their life, may go places just to have someone to talk to. Right?

Eric: Those grab onto anybody because they want to have somebody to talk to.

Sarah: Yeah. And you get the impression that Patsy doesn't have anybody, that all of her happiness comes from those memories, as you said, like where she kind of disappears back into those memories. And so here are 2 people at her house wanting to talk about the past. And she's not really, she's not focused on finding Billy. She's focused on keeping them there because she wants someone to talk to.

She wants to share her glory days. She wants to, I don't think it's selfishness.

Eric: I think she's lonely. I don't think it's just that she wants to share her glory days. I think she wants to relive her glory Yeah.

Sarah: Okay. That's the better better wording for it. But yeah, I think she's lonely and she doesn't want them to go. So she's finding anything she can to string them along. She does end up helping them.

Eric: She does. But yeah. She's she's definitely kind of in her own little world there.

Sarah: Yeah. Through most It of this makes her kind of this sort of sad and tragic figure, even maybe more so than Billy because she had all this fame and she just never had any happiness beyond it. Like, she just kind of like faded away and so did her sense of self, which is kind of sad.

Eric: And she's using the conversation here to keep them there and to draw them back in.

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah. She'll give them just a little bit of a nugget and she'll realize as they're trying to leave that, okay, that wasn't enough. So she gives them a little bit more, feeds them a little bit more, the carrot on the stick.

Sarah: It's not a Buffy reference, but this 1 kind of, I don't know why this popped into my head because it's not really the same thing. But did you ever watch Schitt's Creek? The Schitt's Creek. So Schitt's Creek was a Canadian television series, but it kind of like got a bit of worldwide fame and it was about this like really, really rich family that gets arrested for, they don't get arrested, but they get caught for embezzling or something like that. And all their stuff gets taken away, basically.

They're left homeless. And the only thing they have in the world is this town called Schitt's Creek that the dad purchased for his son as a joke. And so they have to actually go to this town and they end up living in a motel for the entirety of the series where they kind of have to rebuild their lives and their sense of self. And there's 1 episode where the mother who's played by Catherine O'Hara, who just passed away as well, she's an aging former soap opera actress. So all of her kind of big glory days are behind her, but there's a false rumor about her death online.

And she's so excited that there's a false rumor about her death and even more excited when it looks like nude pictures of herself might've been leaked on the internet that she's like, you think she's desperate to find these nude pictures because she wants to get them taken down, but it's the opposite. She wants more nude pictures of herself so that the whole world can see how beautiful And it's played comedically, but at the very end of the episode, she speaks to this character, Stevie, who kind of like helps run the motel. And she gives her this advice and it's kind of like weirdly beautiful and kind of sad advice because she says to Stevie, take 1000 naked pictures of yourself now. And she says, you may currently think, oh, I'm too spooky or nobody wants to see these tiny boobies. But believe me, 1 day you will look at those photos with much kinder eyes and say, Dear God, I was a beautiful thing.

And that line has always gotten me just the idea that like, you may not think much of yourself now, but you're going to look back on this and you're going to see how beautiful you were and you're going to see all of that, what you had. So like, don't be afraid to just live in that. Right? And that's kind of what Patsy hasn't done. She's never moved beyond that.

She's still in that moment that she's, you know, oh, and hey, the person that wrote the email also likes my Schitt's Creek references. So who's the cooler 1 now? But in all seriousness, yeah, it just kind of makes me think of that, how she's kind of like, I don't know, she just hasn't, she hasn't gone anywhere with her life. It's sad.

Eric: Well, after she says that she knows why Billy has disappeared, Lauren Steele, of course, slow their pace. And Patsy simply states, Sally Benson, but offers no further explanation as if the name itself should be explanation. Steele finally asks, who's Sally Benson? And Patsy says, young actress under contract at Metro. She stops, pulls over at a cabinet, or she stops at a cabinet, pulls open a drawer, and pulls out a photo of Sally Benson.

Handing the photo to Laura, she explains that she had a few pictures. Let's see. There was and Laura cuts her off. Doesn't want to go down memory lane with her, but she demands to know what Sally's connection to Billy was. No time for reminiscences.

Sally and Billy were best friends. They roomed together. As she puts the photo back into the drawer, Patsy says, tragic, as if the word should be explanation of it's in itself.

Sarah: Oh, this is baiting her dropping the bait. This is the carrot. Oh, tragic.

Eric: Yeah. He finally asks, why is that? Sally killed herself, Patsy informs him as she sits on the couch. Poor Billy was shattered. She decided to leave Hollywood and never come back.

I told her she was making a mistake, but she left. Lou, he tried to find her, even sent a detective after Lou? Steele questions. Lou Mackler, Billy's agent. And Steele puts his hand to his mouth in a, gesture.

And Laura has a look of surprise asking Lou Mackler, the head of Baxter Broadcasting Group? And Patsy affirms that Laura's information is correct, explaining that he was an agent back then, and he lost a valuable property when Billy left. She could have gone places, then adds. He never found her. And with sudden urgency, Steele thanks Patsy, telling her that she's been very helpful and very gracious.

As they head out the door, Patsy tries to persuade them to stay, telling them that she's got coffee on and cookies. They laugh uncomfortably telling her thanks, but no thanks. But Patsy isn't done yet. She just remembered someone else they might want to talk to.

Sarah: Funny how that happens.

Eric: Yeah. Tom Hogan, Billy's makeup man. What would he know? Laura asks. Billy and Tom were very close, Patsy recounts.

If she stayed in touch with anyone, I'll bet it would be him.

Sarah: And it's interesting that she points that out because in a lot of the podcasts that I've been listening to that are other rewatch podcasts for other TV shows, if cast members come on or if they're hosted by a cast member, a lot of them will talk about how they had very close relationships with the makeup people on the show. Todd McIntosh was the Buffy makeup person and Juliet Landau has talked about him as has some of the other cast. And it's mainly because you sit for hours sometimes in the makeup chair, especially if it's like a science fiction series where there's prosthetics involved. You, I mean, that's what you do. You have, you talk to them, you become friends with them, you get to know them really well, especially if they're, you know, you're collaborating with them to design the makeup for your character or what have you.

So this makes perfect sense that she would be close with the makeup person for the

Eric: show. Well, not only what you said, but if you think about how TV shows are shot, you know, they're in front of the camera, they're acting their their parts cut. Okay. Let's do it again. Great.

Next scene they go. They don't have a lot of time to interact with other people. No. Only people they really have extended periods of time to interact with anybody with is during that time that they're getting makeup done. And so the people that are around them while they're having that makeup done, the makeup artists are the ones they're going to be talking to.

So it makes perfect sense.

Sarah: The bartender hearing all people's troubles, you know, the makeup, the makeup people.

Eric: Yeah. So anyway, after Patsy says that if anybody stayed close, to Billy, it would have been Tom. Laura seems to make a quick calculation in her head and then asks if she can use Patsy's phone. Patsy points out a phone in the entry. Laura steps out to go to the phone, leaving Steele with Patsy.

And walking back toward the piano, Patsy says to Steele, though walking away from him that she was right, wasn't she? Right? He asks in return. Billy should have stayed here. She reaches the piano then slowly sinks down onto the bench.

Then with a slightly pleading tone tells Steele, people don't forget a star. Oh. And Steele leaning down next to her at the piano softly assures her that no, people don't forget a star.

Sarah: This is beautiful. Like this little scene, this is what we mean by like the guest stars Because this woman has what? 2 minutes in this episode? Maybe?

Eric: 3.

Sarah: And this small little moment as Laura goes out to use a phone and Steele's left alone with her is just this gorgeous little, like she's vulnerable and her voice is trembling slightly. And she's asking him if people are going to forget her. That's just not how she says it. Right? But like, that's what she wants.

That's what she needs. And he he understands that. He kind of gives her that reassurance that she needs. Like, it's it's really sweet. Didn't need to be there.

Eric: And and that's exactly what I had written down is that she's wanting to be reassured in her fantasy that people haven't forgotten her.

Sarah: Yeah. And it's just like, like that didn't need to be there. Laura could have gone out to use the phone and it, she could have kept offering Steele cookies or it could have stayed comedic. Instead it went for this beautiful touching moment of like Steele telling her, no, no, no, you're okay. People remember.

And that I don't know. That's just gorgeous. I loved it.

Eric: Yeah. Well, next, it is night. My body's weak. I'm on no. Oh, I'm sorry.

Okay. That's Christopher Cross. I'm sorry. I I don't know how he got my head there. We see the rabbit headed down the main street.

Laura is telling Steele that they should visit Tom Hogan now and then Lou Mackler in the morning, but Steele isn't really paying attention. He calmly says, Sunset Boulevard. And Laura shakes her head, correcting him that, no. Hogan lives on Beachwood Drive. Gloria Swanson, William Holden, Paramount, 1950.

That's what this case reminds me of. Trapped with 30 year old ghosts. It's well, it's just creepy. But Laura isn't buying it, suggesting that maybe it's the fact that someone else is enjoying the spotlight for once.

Sarah: That's that I'm ready for my close-up from Sunset Boulevard. I was right. It was Gloria Swanson. Sorry. It just when you were saying that, I and it's funny because I completely forgotten that this that movie was even referenced here.

I was like, wait a minute. Anyway, go ahead.

Eric: He asked if she's implying that he's jealous. No. Not jealous, but perhaps envious. Steele laughs and with obvious insincerity insists that he is delighted. He's grown rather weary of dealing with the media, and he appreciates the break.

And Laura, with obvious annoyance, says that she didn't get that impression when Windsor was fawning all over him. Yeah. Oh, are we talking about jealousy? Steele asks, tossing an implication back at her. And then Laura and Steele pull up in front of a rather grand looking apartment complex.

Sarah: Before we go there, this moment, that moment here where she she base he says, oh, are you accusing me of being jealous? No. No. Envious. And then he shoots it back at her and they kind of laugh and they they share this, like, moment of agreement.

These are those little moments we were talking about in season 4 that kind of show that intimacy is there, that they're not the same characters they were in season 1. Because in season 1, there would have been more irritation that lingers. There would have been more. And I'm not saying it doesn't because there are moments in this episode, but that kind of like little spot right there where they both kind of realize, oh, okay, we're maybe a little bit jealous of each other. It's sweetly acknowledged and then they just carry on with their day.

Kinda like it.

Eric: Well, anyway, unbeknownst to them, a figure is in the apartment building somewhere watching as they walk up the path toward the front entry. As they approach the entry, a suspicious man in a trench coat and hat, head lowered to hide his face, walks out, and then we see it's Jake. As he walks some distance away, he slows and pauses, then looks back toward Laura and Steele. Inside, Laura and Steele approach Apartment 214. Laura knocks on the door.

They wait for a response, and then after a few moments, Laura looks at her watch as Steele bends down to examine the deadbolt lock. Yes. There are fresh scratches on the face of the lock. Laura comments that it's odd he hasn't answered. He said he'd be here.

Steele suggests that they weren't the only ones who wanted to see mister Hogan as he directs her attention to the damaged locks. He absolutely turns the doorknob and the door opens slightly. He gets a something isn't right here look on his face. And they open the door more fully to the apartment and it's dark inside. Laura calls out to Tom, Hogan, but there's no response.

They step into the apartment a short distance. Laura reaches over to find the light switch and flips it on to reveal. Tom Hogan is on the floor, unmoving, surrounded by the obvious signs of a struggle and a ransacking. They move in to examine Hogan. Gunshot wound to the chest.

Blood running from it. Steele checks the neck for a pulse. No success. Steel begins examining some of the items on the floor beside the body, mostly male. Over to the desk, Laura is pursuing a similar task.

She notices a phone and reaches for it. But as she grabs it, it slides back on the desk, revealing an address book. Just then, Windsor, Kyle, and Dennis appear in the doorway of the apartment. They immediately realize that this is great. What a story.

And she tells Dennis to start filming. Stunned, Steele stands, looks at Laura and asks, who invited them? We come back from a commercial break, and the story is playing out on the television screens. Windsor is speaking. The 30 year old mystery of actress Billy Young took a grotesque turn this evening when private investigator Laura Holt discovered Billy's former makeup man brutally murdered in his Hollywood apartment.

Sarah: Oof.

Eric: And as we hear her words, the image on screen moves from the body on the floor up to Windsor and then Laura.

Sarah: Who looks deeply uncomfortable at this. Yeah. I I I know that

Eric: Slightly.

Sarah: I I think she does. And I think she looks

Eric: so I think she she's more looking like I wasn't expecting this. Not necessarily uncomfortable, but just more of a taken by surprise type thing. I think

Sarah: it's a mixture of both. And I I I have my issues with Laura a little later in the episode, but up in like, until this point, I I don't have any issues with the way she handled things because in her mind, she was just getting an interview and that's what Spotlight wanted to do. They wanted to follow the progression of the case. So it made sense to call them and say, Hey, we're going go and interview Tom Hogan. Certainly wasn't expecting to find Tom Hogan dead.

So that part, I think this should have been the moment where Laura kind of went, okay, we're cutting this. We're not doing this anymore. And she does look uncomfortable. But yeah, like it, this is this is kind of the point where it should have been the end of it.

Eric: Yeah, I am. I'm not sure she really looks all that uncomfortable. But anyway, as we see her and Windsor on the screen, we can see that Steele is standing behind her talking to a detective, but he takes the time to glance over his shoulder periodically toward the television camera and Laura and Windsor. Well, we hear Windsor ask Laura what happened. And Laura says, well, they've been following all the leads they can.

And the camera pulls back to reveal that now the television where we see the interview is in Steele's apartment and Laura is sitting watching herself. As the interview continues, Laura on the screen states that actress Patsy Vance, 1 of Billy Young's former colleagues, told her, but Steele has been repeatedly glancing at her as she's being interviewed. And upon Laura stating that Patsy told her, Steele and Laura briefly lock eyes, prompting Laura to mend that. Patsy told mister Steele and herself about Tom Hogan, Billy's former makeup man, and they came right over, but somebody had beaten them to him.

Sarah: It's maybe not a great idea for her to reveal the witness that Yeah. Pointed the way to Tom Hogan. Yeah. Especially since Tom Hogan has now been killed. Maybe

Eric: it wasn't a good idea to invite Windsor in the first place, but we'll get to that, I guess. Anyway, as the interview has progressed, the camera has pulled out to reveals that not only is Laura watching herself on the television, Steele is standing next to the television. But Laura doesn't get to see the rest of the interview because Steele reaches down and turns it off. Laura lets out with an annoyed, hey. But Steele ignores it and goes straight into the accusation.

You called Windsor from Patsy's and told her to meet us. Well, Laura not only admits it, but she does so with an obviously cavalier attitude stating that she thought Tom Hogan would make a colorful interview. But instead, she and Winsard made a circus act out of Hogan's murder, he criticizes. She stands and indignantly excuses her actions. After all, she didn't know Hogan was dead.

They did not make a circus out of it. It's a legitimate news story, she insists. Crossing her arms. Yeah.

Sarah: This is 1 of those places where I think they're both right and they're both she's both right and wrong because it was wrong to call. I get why she didn't think it was a big deal. Because again, they weren't aware that this was anything other than a quirky mystery of where did this woman go. It is a legitimate news story. Should they have been there before the police?

No. It's 1 of those things where it is a legitimate news story. It's a murder. That's a news story. But it should not have been covered the way it was covered when it was covered.

Eric: It shouldn't have been Not only that, but once there was murder involved, Laura probably should have stopped talking to Windsor. For sure.

Sarah: Yeah. Well, pointed out already.

Eric: She should

Sarah: mention Betsy Vance. But I mean, if they were already there, they would they would have covered it regardless of whether Laura said anything.

Eric: Well, yeah.

Sarah: But because again, it is a legitimate news story, but it yeah, it's 1 of those, this is a really complicated episode in the sense that there's parts of what Laura did that were, I think, well intentioned. And there's parts of what Laura does that are self serving. And I think with Steele and his criticism, there's parts of that that are 100 correct. And a little bit of that that is jealousy and it's all mixed together. So everybody comes out looking imperfect and kind of like watercolor y.

Eric: Well, crossing her Laura, crossing her Laura, crossing her arms, Laura tries to shift the focus back to Steele saying that he really doesn't like her getting the attention, does he? No. What he doesn't like is the fact that in the morning, she goes on television broadcasting their case, and in the evening, 1 of their leads turns up dead.

Sarah: Fair

Eric: point. Choosing to miss the point, Laura angrily asks if he's really implying that she's somehow responsible for that. Steele tries to respond, perhaps somewhat inaccurately by starting to say no. He's not implying that. But, I mean, really, can it just be chalked up to coincidence?

You you don't announce your plans to your opponents so that they can take preemptive actions.

Sarah: Well, they didn't to be fair, they didn't know they had an opponent. Again, it was it was up and oops, sorry. Up until this point, it seemed like a quirky Hollywood story. It could have been simply that she just fell off the grid because she was tired of of the Hollywood scene, which was kind of part of it. It wasn't until this actually happens that they know that there's anything dangerous to it.

So I don't I guess that's true. It's 1 of those things where, is it Laura's fault? Well, kind of, but she didn't know there was anything to guard against. And I don't think she would have agreed to do it if she had known ahead of time. That being said, she's defensive.

So she's deflecting by accusing Steele, like pushing

Eric: it back. She's not helping her case.

Sarah: No, no. It doesn't help when she And to an extent I understand because she's spent 4 years being pushed aside, being the unnamed woman, being in the picture, but never identified. There's a lot of resentment that has been building up over the years. And it's fair to have that resentment, but it's not fair to take that resentment and then use it to excuse behavior that is not really excusable. It's this weird, she's not wrong for feeling the way she feels about how he's enjoyed so much publicity over the years and she's been ignored.

But at the same time, you don't use that to defend continuing to expose a case or to work with people that are going to put people at risk. Like it's just

Eric: Yeah. Yeah. Well, Laura is livid. At this point, she doesn't care about propriety, good judgment, or reality. All she wants to do is make excuses for her sudden unbridled lust for publicity.

She yells exactly what you've been saying for 4 years. He's been getting fabulous press because of her, and now she gets 1 break, and he feels threatened. Steele again tries to respond, insisting that that isn't the point, but Laura doesn't wanna discuss it or hear anything he has to say that contradicts her position. She will see him tomorrow.

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: And Steele waves his hand telling her, oh, okay.

Sarah: And She I turns

Eric: and stomps out.

Sarah: What's funny is that I don't think he's feeling threatened anymore. He was though. And so it's hard for, like, him to argue back his point because it is entirely in character for him to feel threatened when she gets attention and he doesn't. But now that he's actually seeing this with fresh eyes that she is not seeing things with, he's not feeling threatened. This is not an ego trip for him anymore.

Is legitimately At

Eric: this point, yeah.

Sarah: It's become Him legitimately saying like, Hey, no, no, no. Someone's dead here. We need to take this seriously. And I kind of wonder what would have happened had the tables been flipped if he would have considered to or continued to push his own publicity agenda when Laura points out, hey, this isn't okay. Or if he would have listened to reason, I don't know.

Part of me thinks.

Eric: He probably would have been a wouldn't have happened right away. Let's put it

Sarah: that way. No. Yeah, I think so. I think you're right. I think it's but I do think it maybe would have happened a little bit sooner and not because he's better than her or because she's an awful person or anything like that.

But I think it's because he often sees the humanity sometimes a little bit before she does. And that's why he was the 1 to reassure Patsy that no 1 forgets a star. And especially when it comes to old Hollywood, I think, because look what happened with that season. I think it season 1 episode with Veronica Kirk. And he kind of understood her in a way that nobody else could.

I think he can see elements of people that others can't. And so I think maybe he would have come to a little quicker, but she does eventually. She does kind of clue in eventually. Yeah.

Eric: Yeah. Anyway, next we are in the offices of or Lou Mackler of the broadcast of the Next, we are in the office of Lou Mackler of the Baxter Broadcast Group. Say that fast 10 times.

Sarah: It's the BDG. Not the BBC. It's the BBG.

Eric: Windsor is loudly pleading her case, reminding him, when you hired me for Spotlight, you knew my heart was in news. Well, this is the closest thing to a news story I've seen in 2 years. There's even a dead body. And what about spotlight? Lou asks.

Kyle can do it. Fluff is his forte, she tells me. Lou laughs calling Kyle a boob. Windsor changes her tactic, more gently saying, come on, Lou. 1 chance.

Let me prove I can do a story where all the people keep their clothes on. Lou gives it some thought and then says, fine. 1 chance. Blow it. And he doesn't want to hear any more about her switching to news.

Sarah: So this is 1 of those points where I think that it gives Windsor a little humanity because we later realized that Lou Mackler has been manipulating women in the Hollywood business for literal decades to the point of it resulting in Sally Benson's death. He's a piece of slime. He's the epitome of the casting couch, and he knows exactly what Windsor wants. And he's going to dangle it in front of her and basically get her to do his dirty work in order to finish off Billy and get rid of any ties to his crimes from the past. He's using her as viciously as Windsor uses Laura.

But in his case, I think it's even more gross and self serving because she just And I'm not excusing her behavior. She behaves in pretty disgusting ways, too. But like, she eventually comes to realize, again, similar to Laura, she comes to a little bit, whereas Lou has no conscience, no soul. He's just a parasite.

Eric: Yeah. I don't know.

Sarah: I have a little sympathy for him because he's like, if you screw this up, you're never going to get the thing that you've been working so hard for. And so she's going to go as hard as she can because it's her only way in.

Eric: Yeah. Yeah. Well, Windsor smiles determined to make the most of Lou's decision. She assures him that she'll stick to steel and Holt like Mike Wallace to a sweating politician. And when they find Billy Young, she'll be there.

Sarah: Mike Wallace, do we need to talk about this? There's a lot of references to broadcasters here. And again, he's another 1 that I recognize the name. According to Wikipedia, American broadcast journalist, television personality known for his investigative journalism. Oh, he did 60 Minutes.

Okay. Yeah, I know who he was, but yes, 7 decade career. 1 of the original correspondents featured on CBS news program 60, which debuted in 1968. Full time correspondent retired at 2006, still appeared occasionally on the series until 2008, and he passed away in 2012. So that's my quals.

Eric: Well, Windsor walks to the door to leave, but when she opens it, Steele and Laura are standing outside. And here I have a geography problem.

Sarah: Okay.

Eric: If we go back to the previous scene where Windsor's in Lou Mackler's office.

Sarah: Right.

Eric: Well, if you you look at the office, we see the furniture and decoration pieces, which are clearly in his office. And right in front of his desk and just to the right is a couch and a coffee table with a horse statue on it.

Sarah: K.

Eric: And just past that is a privacy screen. So we are all this stuff is right dead in Lou Mackler's office. Now when we see Windsor standing in the doorway talking to Lauren Steele, we're looking right back past her, and we see all of this stuff. So she is right there in his office. Yeah.

It's the doorway to his office. And this is important. As you look look at this, there is no wall around her. She's not standing in front of another doorway.

Sarah: Right.

Eric: It's just the door that's between her and Steele and Laura and then goes back into Lou's office. But in a slightly later shot, there's actually a wall behind her that isn't there in this shot to separate this, what would be the reception area from Lou Mackler's office, which is important because if if what we're being presented with here is accurate, they are in basically Lou Mackler's office. He's hearing all the conversation that's going on between Laura and and Steele and and Windsor, and he's not even he's not even oh, she's like, oh, somebody's talking about me a few feet away. They're I'm just going to pretend I don't hear it. No, it doesn't work.

I'm sorry. Anyways,

Sarah: it's a weird 1. I think we have to hand wave that 1, but you're right. It's it's kind of odd.

Eric: Good. I'm getting hot. So let me wave really, really hard. Okay. There you go.

I'm going now. You say

Sarah: that that that blue dress that gets commented on, which obviously she's wearing because she's told not to wear white, looks good on her, though. She looks it's a nice dress. I like it.

Eric: You know, I I hate to say also that kind of harvest gold top that Windsor is wearing. That color's kind of okay. I mean, it works for her. It wouldn't work on Laura.

Sarah: That's a a a grudging compliment.

Eric: It wouldn't look reluctantly. It wouldn't work on Laura, but on Windsor, it looks it it works. Yeah. So anyway. But then again, it's Windsor, so who cares?

Anyway, she asks if they found Billy, and they, of course, don't give her a direct answer. Instead, Laura says that they were hoping that mister Mackler could help them, then asks if Windsor knew that Mackler had been Billy's agent. Why? Of course. That's why he went for the reunion idea.

He wants to find out what happened to her. But he had told Windsor that he didn't have a clue where she was, so she didn't mention it to him. And scratching his ear, perhaps an indication of doubt, Steele tells Windsor that they think Mackler might be of some help. Windsor says terrific, but she's gotta run. Shall we meet up with them later?

And, Laura, that's a great color. You look fabulous on camera. Well, as she leaves, Lou Mackler comes from his desk, a mere few feet away as as if he was only just now aware of Lauren Steele's presence. He introduces himself, invites them in. Aren't they already in?

Tells Steele that it's a pleasure to meet him and, of course, his industrious associate who looks even lovelier in person than she does on camera.

Sarah: Ugh. Gross.

Eric: Lawrence Steele sit on the couch, which has, as I implied earlier, magically moved not only many yards from its original position a few minutes earlier, but now into another room entirely because we passed through his office where his desk is into another office and the couch is in there. Handwave. You know, I'm the guy who does I I love blueprints from things like Star Trek and such. I love the the blueprints of the set designs and the layouts. And I'm sorry when this stuff just bugs me when they get it wrong.

Anyway That's fair.

Sarah: That's fair. You would have been 1 of the guys looking for the toilets on the Enterprise. I get it.

Eric: I had the blueprints that showed

Sarah: up. Yeah. I know you did. That's why said it. When they're up there.

Eric: Anyway, Mackler says that he overheard Windsor tell them that he doesn't know where Billy went, so how could he be of service? And Laura says that they understand that he had hired a private investigator to find Billy 30 years ago. He confirms saying that there were some contracts and payments, and he pauses, we can see that his mind is reeling back through the years. He sighs and then resumes saying that there was something about Billy, not just talent. A lot of people have talent, but she had something special, something that then he seems to suddenly regain his sense of place and returns to the present and clears his throat telling him that the detective never found her.

Laura asks if you know, he's he's a really good actor, actually. Lou Mackler. Not just the actor playing Lou Mackler, but Lou Mackler himself.

Sarah: Yeah. He is a good actor.

Eric: That because that's a great act for a guy who actually is guilty and knows knows

Sarah: Oh, yeah.

Eric: Exactly what's going on.

Sarah: Complete trash.

Eric: Anyway, Laura asked if Backler remembers the detective's name. He chuckles saying that he does because it always reminded him of a character in a Raymond Chandler novel. The name was Slater. Jake Slater. Yeah.

It it is. It's it's that classic.

Sarah: A very private eye name.

Eric: Very 19 forties film noir. Yes. Lauren Steele stand. Thank Mackler for his help and then head out. But just before they leave, Steele stops and asks how 1 goes from being an agent to running the Baxter Broadcasting Group.

Well, Mackler spreads his hands as if it should be obvious, laughs and tells Steele, by marrying Pauline Baxter. Yeah. Well, next, we see a pair of hands with a stack of envelopes that clearly have letters in them addressed to Tom Hogan. The return address is from a Chelsea Nash PO Box 386, Twin Pines, California. The hands in question are grabbing letters from the stack and throwing them.

Then the camera pulls back, and we see that the hands belong to Jake Slater who is squatting in front of a fire, which is where the letters that he is throwing are going. The sound of a doorbell ringing startles him. Outside of the house, we see that Laura and Steele are at the front door, and it was they that rang the bell. But when there's no answer, Steele steps a few feet away from Laura, looks around, and takes note that the car is there, and there's smoke coming from the chimney and suggests Laura try the bell again. She does.

Inside, we see that Slater has given up trying to burn the letters and other documents individually and completely and throws the remaining ones on the fire all at once. He grabs a small log, pokes at the fire, trying to hide the documents in the fireplace. And then when the bell rings yet again, he turns, grabs his pistol, shoves it down his pants again, and then dons his sweater to hide it. As he walks to the door, the bell continues to chime, and we see a photograph of 2 women, 1 of whom is Billy Young, the other Sally Benson, as it burns in the fireplace. At the door, he opens to Steele and Laura and promptly growls, it ain't broken.

Sarah: I'm surprised that they kept ringing the doorbell and just didn't just Jimmy the door and go in because that's usually the that's usually the MO if they can't get in somewhere.

Eric: Well, but they knew he was in there, so it would have been a little bit presumptuous. I mean, if if nobody's home, it's fine to break in. But if somebody's home, it's impolite. You know? Ethics.

Steele asks Jake Slater, and Jake responds, who's asking? Steele introduces himself and Laura, after which Slater curtly tells them that he's not interested and starts to close the door. Laura calls out to him that this is very important. Slater opens the door to look at her and coldly asks why. It concerns the old case of yours, she tells him, and then asks if they can come in.

He taps his thumb against the door frame for a moment and motions them to come on in. Laura and Steele enter walking past Slater and into the living room. He follows behind them asking if they want any Java. Steele responds that he doesn't suppose that Slater has any iced tea.

Sarah: Has Steele ever asked for iced tea? Oh, that is not a Remington Steele drink. I I I'm assuming that this is just to kind of highlight the fact that it's extremely hot in this apartment because he's

Eric: Yeah.

Sarah: Got a fire going and he's

Eric: I'm sure it is. Yeah.

Sarah: But it's just weird that he he could have asked for, like, ice cold water instead of Well, tea.

Eric: He's British Irish, so it's got to be tea. And as hot as as it is, yeah, the ice, I think was a little bit of sarcasm about the fact that, yeah, it's so hot in here.

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: It's hot outside and you got a fire going and you're wearing a sweater.

Sarah: Yeah. That's weird. That is weird.

Eric: Well, when Steele asks for ice trees, Slater grumbles that that's a sissy drink. He'll I'll take that as a no. And noting the fire, Lauren notes that it's a warm day for a fire. Standing by the fireplace, Slater gyrates claiming arthritis. And he says, he'll just turn it down a bit.

That's not how fireplaces work, but okay. He bends over, makes an adjustment, and then excuses it all by saying he's an old man. He chills easily. Yet he grabs a hanky from his pocket because he's sweating so profusely and has to mop his brow. He turns to Lauren Steele saying that they said something about an old case of his.

30 years ago, you were hired to find a singer by the name of Billy Young, Laura states. Slater gives a thoughtful look, turns away, then repeats the name several times as if trying to remember. As he puts on the act, he notices that the photo has fallen out of the fire, so he kicks it back in. Then as if remembering, he says, that's right. Billy Young, the actress, has it been that long?

Never found her. Laura informs him that they've been hired to try again and would it be alright if they looked through his old case files? Dumped him when he retired, he says. Steele asks if Slater remembers anything about the case. Did he interview a Tom Hogan, her makeup man?

Slater asks the question that should be triggering alarm bells.

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: Ask if Tom Hogan, her makeup man, knew Billy. Yeah. It kind of implies a relationship more than just a random person encounter. Yeah. So Yeah.

Odd question to ask. But when Steele says yes, Slater says, if Hogan knew Billy, well, then I talked to him. And then starting to show an attitude of superiority and of indignation that any would would dare question his confidence and would dare have the nerve to reinvestigate a case he's already investigated. He tells Steele in very irritated tone that he was good. And getting really confrontational, he informs them that if he couldn't find her 30 years ago, they're not gonna find her now.

And then in an almost threatening tone, he tells them to drop the case.

Sarah: So this is this is kind of funny because it's it's a combination of an insult. And like you said, an insult to his ego that they that they're trying to solve it. And to be fair, he did solve it, but he can't say that to them because that points to know what I mean? So he's insulted that they're reopening his case. He's threatened because they're reopening his case.

But also you just know he wants to say, like, I found her. I'm not an idiot. I know what I was doing. I was good. But he can't say that he found her.

So he's in this really weird position. But he also is fortunate enough for it to be so long ago that when he says, he knew Billy, I talked to her or I to him. That makes sense. Like you could buy that an old man who had that many cases possibly doesn't remember all the details of it because it's 30 years ago and he's not as young as he used to be. But I think this is where he kind of screws himself up a little bit because he gets so annoyed that he gets a little too insistent on dropping the case.

If he had just left it there and said like, Yeah, well, if he knew Billy, I'd probably talk to him. Look, I was pretty good. If I couldn't find her, you're not going to find her, but hey, good luck to you, or whatever. They probably wouldn't have found him as suspicious as when he leans forward and he's like, drop the case. Yeah.

You

Eric: don't say that unless you've got a reason for wanting them to drop the case.

Sarah: Exactly.

Eric: More than just ego.

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: Anyway, Laura and Steele beat a hasty retreat, but as they do, Slater glances back over at the fireplace. Outside, Steele opens up his jacket and fans himself commenting across the old Cauger. It's like a Turkish bath in there. As Laura steps off the porch headed toward the Auburn, she comments that that might be steel 1 day. She stops.

Sarah: Yeah. I

Eric: would like to eat.

Sarah: I love that that's what she's envisioning.

Eric: Domestic steel or steel in the which 1 was it? Dreams of steel.

Sarah: Dreams of steel. Yeah.

Eric: Yeah. She stops and turns looking at Steele who's still back on the porch. The look on his face and posture prompting her to ask, what is it? Steele shakes his head, telling Laura that he's got the disturbing feeling that he's seen Slater somewhere before. He steps back onto the porch in front of the front door, holding his face with his hands and pondering.

And, of course, we see that Jake Slater is looking at Steele through the peephole. Yeah. After a moment, Steele gives up admitting that he just can't place him, and then he and Laura head toward the Auburn. Back at the office, Dennis, cameraman in Windsor there, and Mildred is not happy. She's over it.

Sarah: She is just over it.

Eric: Well, apparently, Dennis doesn't understand the concept of personal space No. As she's ordering him to get that camera out of her face or it's gonna end up in so many pieces that all the king's horses and all the king's men ain't gonna be able to put it back together again. And no telling where she's gonna put those pieces.

Sarah: Yeah. Exactly. They're gonna get stuff somewhere that will be very uncomfortable for Dennis.

Eric: Watch the corners. Yep. Anyway, Laura and Steele enter as Mildred is uttering her threats. Laura looks back and forth between Mildred and Dennis, a concerned look on her face. Steele advances at Dennis, raises his hands, and utters, no comment, and then walks toward his office.

Windsor steps over to Laura and shoves the microphone in her face. Laura, apparently not wanting to talk on camera at the moment, makes the excuse that she needs to freshen up. She heads toward her office, pausing just long enough to give Steele a you got something to say about it look.

Sarah: Yeah. And it's interesting because I didn't realize this until now. But aside from that fight that they had the previous night, Laura doesn't really give anything else away with regards to the case until Steele and Mildred take off on their own. And that's that is a major screw up. But here, Windsor comes in and she's shoving the mic into her face.

Laura, I don't know whether it's because Steele's staring at her and she feels self conscious because she doesn't want to appear to be too eager for the spotlight, or if it's just simply that she is feeling conflicted about her part in Tom Hogan's death. But she she definitely does sort of look as if she's not really sure that this is what she wants happening. Well,

Eric: except as she walks by Steele, she looks at him and she raises her chin in that kind of a haughty attitude of

Sarah: Oh, yeah. She's defensive. 100%. Because she doesn't wanna admit she was wrong. And that is a flaw that that we've seen her have throughout the series.

But I also think there is

Eric: But the thing is she's going to prove that she's not wrong by going ahead and doing the interview that you've you know, maybe she doesn't wanna do it, but Windsor's kinda pointing her into it. Yeah. She's gonna do it just to spite Steele.

Sarah: I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that we are seeing some conflict here. But at the moment, you're right. Her ego is getting the better of her common sense. And I think she's feeling goaded by the fact that he's standing there.

I think if he wasn't standing there, she might have actually put them off. Because he's standing there, trying to, as you said, she's trying to spite him. And so she basically like kind of, I don't know, it's just this weird, like, you don't want me to do it, so I'm gonna do it because you're standing right there. Yeah.

Eric: I'm gonna jump into the swimming pool that has no water in it just because you

Sarah: because you told me not to. Yeah.

Eric: Well, as Laura closes the door behind her and Steele takes the final steps toward his office door, Mildred rushes over and in a low tone tells him that they gotta get rid of them, meaning Windsor and Dennis Yeah. Adding that she thinks she's found something.

Sarah: Mildred smart. Mildred has figured out the matrix here because she knows, even though Laura's in charge, and for the most part, she's deferred to her this whole season with that realization now having been known. But here she sees that Laura is not using her best judgment. And so she is counting on Steele, who she's figured out is understanding the situation a little bit better. She's confiding in him.

Eric: I mean, she's clocked Windsor from from the beginning.

Sarah: Yeah. Oh, yeah. So,

Eric: anyway, Dennis is maneuvering about as the conversation between Mildred and Steele goes on, and in the process, knocks a plant off the counter, breaking the vase that it contains, not to mention dumping the water in it all over to the floor and ruining the flowers. Mildred calls him a klutz, and then Steele instructs her to follow him into his office. Once inside, Steele asks Mildred what she needs to tell him that's so important. Tom Hogan's address book. She begins to tell him more, but Steele interrupts wanting to know where she got it.

Miss Holt, she said. She wanted Mildred to check out the book for leads. Steele takes it from her and begins to look through it, and Mildred realizes that Steele didn't know about it.

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: No. He answers he did not know about it. Then he points out to her that having it is a criminal offense.

Sarah: Oh, come on, Steele. You guys do this literally all the time.

Eric: Yeah. Well and and Melvin doesn't see the issue telling him all yeah. Exactly. Come on. We do it all the time.

Well, that's not the point, he insists. The point is that LA spotlight has blinded miss Holt's judgment.

Sarah: And this

Eric: is where he is that

Sarah: Being a little bit of a stick in the mud, like stick up his butt because they do do this all the time. And Laura, having given the book to Mildred, we don't have any indication that she has told Spotlight News that she did that or that that's being interviewed. It's literally just he's annoyed at her. So he's like, well, sure, we do it all the time, but

Eric: she's letting this clutter. But in this case, it's different.

Sarah: It's different, even though it's different because I say it is.

Eric: It's just kind of funny. Yeah. Well, he says that the point is that Ellie's spotlight has blinded Ms. Holt's judgment, though he adds that he's the last 1 she'd believe about that. Yeah.

Mildred asks if he wants her to talk to Laura. No. That wouldn't be much better, he answers. Then setting that topic aside for the moment, he asks Mildred what she found. She grins and tells him that she found a listing for a Chelsea Nash in Twin Pines.

Irritably, Steele asks, forgive me if I don't uncork the champagne, but who is Chelsea Nash? Chelsea Nash is the name of a character Billy Young played on Showtime Cavalcade, Mildred tells him. Obviously pleased with herself.

Sarah: And she should be. They wouldn't have caught onto that. No.

Eric: Steele gets a grin on his face and tells Mildred that she just won a free trip to Twin Pines. He reaches out, grabs her arm, then leaning forward, gives her a hug and a kiss on the cheek and turns toward the door adding, oh, you devil. But before Steele can get to the door, Mildred rushes over and stops him wanting to know what they're gonna do about miss Holt and that redheaded bombshell. Steele tells Mildred not to worry about it. He'll take care of

Sarah: it. Well,

Eric: next, Steele and Mildred are out in the reception where Windsor is apparently starting her interview with Laura. Steele tells her that since she's leading the investigation, it seems only fair that she should be interviewed in his office. And Laura tries to protest, but Windsor says, that's a great angle. Dennis goes along with Windsor. Who knows why?

Maybe he's trying to get in on her good graces for some reason. We can only guess that.

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: But Steele leads Laura, Windsor, Dennis to his office. And though Laura is still trying to protest, Steele tells her not to thank him. After all, he's sure Phil Donahue would do the same thing.

Sarah: And this is actually, I think, what leads Laura to find him in Twin Pines. Because if he had found some other way of getting out of that office without appearing to be overly approving or accommodating to Laura doing this interview, I don't think she would have been she becomes suspicious because he's like, Oh, you you're Phil Donahue.

Eric: This is Orly solicitous.

Sarah: Yes. Yeah, exactly. The second he changes his tune, she's like, no, no. He's up to something. Something's not right.

So I'm What's not wrong

Eric: with this picture?

Sarah: Yeah. This is this is Steele's mistake here.

Eric: Yes. Well, after he closes the door to his office with Trio inside, he and Mildred sneak out of the office. Next, we see the limo driving through a wooded area, and then it pulls off the road in front of us what looks like a small mountain store. Yep. Steele and Mildred get out and then start walking around.

Next, we see appear several small boats moored and a figure clad in a plaid flannel shirt jacket wearing the stocking cap with a string of fish from 1 of the boats, and the boat is named sisters. The figure turns towards Cameron, and can see that it is an older woman. She starts up a set of stone stairs leading from the pier as Steele and Mildred are coming down them. The woman greets Steele and Mildred asking if she can help them, and Steele says that they're looking for someone. The woman laughs saying that folks usually come up here to get lost, not be found.

And, of course, now we can see that the woman is in full face, and we know that it's Billy Young. As Steele removes his sunglasses, she becomes serious and then asks who they're looking for. Chelsea Nash, Mildred says, claiming that they're a friend of hers. Billy says, I'm sorry. Chelsea moved.

Been gone. She pauses as if thinking, then finishes, more than a year now. Mildred asks if she's sure. She pulls out a picture and hands it to Billy. Billy looks at the photo and then says, hard to tell old picture.

I want

Sarah: to point out something that I noticed that I thought was really cool. And I heard about this on a different podcast. I was listening to another rewatch podcast and it was cast members talking like they who were on the show hosting the podcast. And they were talking about how 1 of the hardest things to do when you're acting is not necessarily the acting, it's the listening and reacting. The stuff where you're not the 1 speaking.

You're not the focus. And here, Steele isn't the focus. Mildred and Billy are talking to 1 another. The focus is on them. But the look on Steel's face, he hasn't quite figured it out yet, but you can see that he's looking at the 2 of them and he knows that something is off and he can't quite figure out what it is.

And you can It's just really interesting to watch his facial expression as they're talking because he does a really good job of keeping himself out of the main frame of the scene while at the same time noticing something's not right and queuing the audience to notice it as well, which I think is really cool.

Eric: Yeah. The thing talking to your point there about how difficult it is to react in a scene. I mean, as the actors, they know information that their characters don't know.

Sarah: Exactly.

Eric: And so they're having to act as their character not knowing information. And and so, yeah, it's so they they actually have to to be in the scene as ignorant of what's really going on, you know, in the story. So, yeah, it's it it would be tough. It would be tough. Anyway, Steele asks if she said if she, Chelsea, said where she was going when she left.

And, of course, Billy scolds him telling him, mister, folks up here don't pry. She holds up the fish for Steele and Mildred to see, telling them that she's gotta get them cleaned. She then walks past them and Mildred says, well, it's worth a shot. Then says, well, maybe there's some other people up here that they can talk to. But Steele isn't paying attention to her.

His attention is focused on the boat. He scratches his head as if tickling his brain and then says, I'll be. As Billy reaches the door of her house slash store, Steele turns, steps toward her, and greets her anew. Hello, Billy. She turns and looks at him, and he's grinning at her, but she is Oh,

Sarah: she can just see her heart sink. And this is a really I love this moment. I always get chills during this moment, like, literal chills because just the way he says, hello, Billy. And just the look that she gives him back, it's just He doesn't say it in a way that's like, I found you. You know, I've solved the case.

It's more like he's pleased that he solved some private joke and that he turns and he sees her as a different person. He's realizing, hey, wait a minute. There's more to this woman. And this isn't 1 of the old Hollywood stars that he idolized because she was TV, and we know Steele doesn't watch TV. But yeah, he's now Like, there's a mystery to her.

It's just kind of like, again, this episode is gorgeous in a lot of ways. It's very subtle and underrated and it's not really mentioned by a lot of Steel fans. It's always been 1 of my favorites because I just love the sort of soft undercurrent of emotion and tension and all of the stuff that goes in. And Brosman is at the center of a lot of it because of the way he says Hello, Billy to her, and then the way she reacts, because she probably hasn't heard anyone say her name, her actual name in 30 years.

Eric: 30 years. Yeah.

Sarah: And there is that moment where she's just like, crap. But also there's probably some, I don't know. There's probably some part of her that is not happy to hear someone say her name, if you haven't heard someone say your name, if you've been hiding for that long, there's probably some relief in it too.

Eric: Yeah. Yeah. It would be hard to change your identity. I mean, you think about people who go into like witness protection.

Sarah: Exactly. Yeah.

Eric: I mean, they walk away from everything and everybody, their family, their friends, their entire life. It's it's like they have died and they have come back. And he

Sarah: knows what that's like because he he does it all the time. So maybe there's also that, oh, it's a good point that you just said that because now I'm seeing something different in it. Maybe it's that kinship that he's seeing somebody like himself, that she took on a new identity and disappeared. And he

Eric: understands what It's that's same kind of thing that he experiences when somebody who he, you know, he was involved with in the past comes along and recognizes him. And there's that same trepidation because it's like, oh, is this gonna be a problem? Yeah. But it's the same time. It's just like, I haven't heard anybody call me that in even a long time.

Wow.

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, they're so it's layered. That those 2 words are so layered, and it's done so well that just I love this episode.

Eric: Well, coming back from the commercial, we see Steele, Mildred, and Billy walking through the woods, and Billy is insisting that she's not going back, that she has no intention of being paraded around like an old relic brought out of mothballs for people to gape at. And Steele begins to try to convince her, calling her Ms. Young. But with a little bit of an anger, she insists that she's no longer Billy Young. She's Chelsea Nash now.

Besides, she's of legal age. Doesn't she have the right to disappear without her picture showing up on a milk carton somewhere?

Sarah: So I wanted to kind of, draw attention to that partly because, in Canada, we use bags, but also because this was a a

Eric: Can you imagine printing someone's face on a bag? And they're like, it was blown up and then it's gonna

Sarah: 's shrills down into lasagna. Yeah, definitely would not.

Eric: It wouldn't help.

Sarah: It wouldn't help. But I wanted to kind of just call attention to what she's referring to here because missing children milk cartons were public service advertisements printed on milk cartons by the National Child Safety Council in The US. The cartons were distributed from December 1984 until the mid 1900s, 19 ninety's, They '19

Eric: went back in time with it.

Sarah: With the intention to spread awareness on missing children's cases. During the late seventies and eighties in The US, missing child cases garnered a great deal of news media. Chief among these were the disappearance of Eaton Pats in 1979 and the kidnapping and murder of Adam Walsh in 1981. That story was told in the 1983 television movie Adam. These reports developed into a type of moral panic called stranger danger.

In 1984, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children was founded. And in 1984, well, Anderson Erickson Dairy in Des Moines, Iowa began printing the photographs of 2 boys, Johnny Gosch, and I apologize if I pronounced that wrong, and Eugene Martin, who went missing while delivering newspapers for the Des Moines Register. A similar milk carton advertisement program for missing children launched in Chicago with support from the police statewide in California and support from the government. So this was like a big thing. And there was a movie made about it as well.

Face on the Milk Curtain, I believe. I can't remember if it was a made for TV movie, but Probably it was sounds

Eric: like a title for a TV

Sarah: Yeah. What's interesting though about this moral panic and stranger danger was because I obviously grew up with this. Right? I obviously grew up with like, don't get into a car with a stranger. Don't go anywhere with a stranger.

Don't take candy from a stranger. And it's all very good advice because I almost got kidnapped when I was a kid. I full on had that happen. Think I told this story already. I was sent to get milk, ironically, from the grocery store.

It was like just down the street. I would have been about 8. And I'm walking back and at the time, in addition to bags, we also sold them in like those plastic jugs, the big heavy ones. And so here's this 8 year old lugging these jugs and a guy pulled up in a car and offered to help and asked me to get in and all the other stuff. And I pointed at my house and said, just live right there.

And he kept following me. And eventually I had to drop milk and run. And the car kept following me all the way up into my house. And eventually I got inside. I was crying because I thought I was in trouble for dropping the milk.

When my dad got out of me, what actually happened? He went outside with a bat, but the car was all gone. And this was, they called it moral panic and stranger danger panic. But at the time, London, Ontario was the serial killer capital of the world. You're number 1.

100% from 1955 to I think it was like mid to late 1980s. We had more serial killers per capita than any other place in the world.

Eric: Put that on your welcome to Ontario site. Paul was.

Sarah: There was a criminologist who at the time was a police officer named, I think it was Michael Artfield, wrote a textbook because he now works at Western as a criminology professor called Murder City. And it's about all of the disappearances and a lot of them were children. And it was literally just that kids going missing off the street, which is why I don't know if you guys have the block parent program in The U. S, but in Canada Yeah. We had

Eric: Block houses.

Sarah: Yeah. Where they had the little thing, the sign in the door. And I remember my mom telling me because it was 1 of those things that everybody in the neighborhood talked about. They all knew it might not have been making national news, but everybody knew, like, stuff's happening, people disappear. So I was told as a kid, if you're ever in danger, look for the house with the block parents sign.

Find that house, knock on that door. And in my case, I was close enough to home that I ran, but like, this was a thing. So it wasn't just moral panic. There was, at least in London, Ontario, there was some real stuff going down. So anyway.

Eric: Anyway, Mildred pleads with Billy saying that people wanna see her. Billy says, no. People don't remember her. And, of course, Mildred disagrees saying she remembers Billy Young. And Billy takes the photo from Mildred's hands, holds it up and says, no.

This is who you remember. Yeah. Everything she was is gone.

Sarah: And that's a really poignant moment too, because Mildred obviously does. That's who she remembers is this beautiful, talented woman on TV who could sing and dance and do all this stuff. And it's hard to see celebrities age, but I think it's harder to see it happen when you haven't seen them for a long time. It's easier to see. And I'm not saying it's people age.

I personally don't have an issue with it. I think it's actually in some cases it makes that particular celebrity even more engaging when you can see them change over the course of the years. Like, look at Pierce Brosnan. We've seen him go from skinny physical comedy pratfalls to some really good work in his career. But when you haven't seen somebody for 30 years and then you see them, I think there's a tendency for people to go, Oh, they haven't aged well.

And it's like, no, they've aged.

Eric: Well, there's also the part of it that is, you know, when she says, well, no, this is who you remember. And the thing is, they don't even really remember the original person. They remember it.

Sarah: They remember the

Eric: on screen presentation. And so so they're they're actually doubly removed from the real person.

Sarah: For sure. So yeah. And yeah. So it's it's just kind of funny because we don't we criticize celebrities when they age and they use plastic surgery, but we criticize them when they don't. And and it's kind of awful.

Eric: Well, it's I would rather see somebody age than

Sarah: me too. Oh, me too.

Eric: Do the plastic surgery thing. And the thing is a lot of times well, most of the time, it doesn't make them look younger, doesn't make them look more attractive. It just makes them look a little bit off.

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: And some of the plastic surgeries that have been done with some of the celebrities have just been horrendous. I mean, you look at them and it's like, why why did you do this to yourself? I mean, what is it about your self image that caused you to do this? Because this is not

Sarah: Yeah. You

Eric: know? If you can look at this and think that you're appealing, you've got self image issues because this is

Sarah: Hollywood is all self

Eric: image issues. Well yeah. But I was like, Mickey O'Rourke Oh, yeah. Is 1. Yeah.

And and there's been a bunch of others that you just look at them and it's like, are you the elephant man? I mean, seriously, are you the elephant man? Because that's what you look like now.

Sarah: Yeah. There's a trend right now that a lot of celebrities are getting their, I'm going to say this wrong. I don't know if this is how it's pronounced, but their buccal fat. They're Right here are their cheeks. The fat that's in your cheeks, they're getting it removed.

So their cheeks are like this. And it's supposed to be more like a chiseled jaw. And it's a lot of women that are doing this. But the thing is it ages you. Yeah.

Your jaw is more chiseled and yeah, you look thinner. Sure. Your face looks thinner, but it also looks more gaunt. And it takes away that collagen in your skin. And it causes like, it doesn't look the way that they think.

I think it's going to look. And then you look at actresses like Linda Hamilton, who has had nothing done because you can see every wrinkle on her face. In my opinion, she looks fantastic. I'd swear if I could, but I can't. Stephanie.

Eric: Let's bring it closer to home. Stephanie looks great.

Sarah: She looks amazing.

Eric: I mean, she may have had some minor touch ups somewhere. I don't know. I'm I'm not aware of anything. But when you look at her, you you see somebody who has she's comfortable in her own skin.

Sarah: You see a woman who's had a career and who has lived and who has, I don't know if not felt that need to capitulate to the Hollywood machine. Like I don't need to be. And Carrie Fisher was another because I

Eric: feel don't need to fake it.

Sarah: Yeah. Carrie Fisher got a lot of flack for gaining weight, for being a human woman and gaining weight as she got older. And when she was hired to play General Leia, she was like, no, I don't need to be a stick figure. I just need to be the actress that you hired to play this role. So I think it's

Eric: Back into Stephanie, if you look at recent pictures of her compared to

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah.

Eric: In the episodes, she's put on weight.

Sarah: Looks great, though. She looks fantastic. And

Eric: you you look at her face and you can see, okay, she's aged, but she still looks great. And I think people forget natural. She looks like herself. She doesn't look like some fake plasticized Mattel Barbie version of of. Not even herself anymore.

Sarah: When women go through menopause, their body slows down, their metabolism literally slows down. It becomes very difficult to keep weight off. And so a lot of women will gain weight in menopause. And Hollywood's like, No, no, no, you're not allowed to do that because you're not allowed to age. I mean, not every woman does, obviously, but it's a very common phenomenon because of the hormone changes.

And she still, again, I would much rather see somebody age and see that age and see who they are as a person, because as an actor, you're supposed to be playing characters. You're not supposed to be playing perfection every single time. And human beings

Eric: Almost never.

Sarah: Yeah. We all look different. I like the fact that the actress that they've hired, Rosemarie, is also a natural looking older woman. Like she isn't, you know, she obviously didn't give into that pressure either because she looks like anybody that you could meet in a grocery store. And yet she has a presence that is undeniable.

Like as Billy Young, she's fabulous. So anyway, I went off tangent. We're back now, but I just love the fact that she points out to Mildred, this is who you remember. This is not who I am.

Eric: Yeah. And so she tears up the photo into pieces and then tells them that she hasn't sung a note in 30 years. And with a somewhat scolding tone, Steele tells Billy that she is certainly entitled to her privacy, but her disappearance is more of a mystery than she is aware of.

Sarah: Privacy. Sorry. It's just so British privacy.

Eric: Okay. Yes. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. My bad.

My bad. Anyway, Billy doesn't understand what he's talking about and Steele almost accusingly says that first of all, they know about Sally Benson and Billy gets angry and tells him to keep Sally out of this. That's none of their business.

Sarah: It's weird that he led with this because he's obviously when he says this is more of a mystery than, know, he's obviously referring to Tom Hogan's death. And I mean, I get it. He probably led with Sally because he thinks it's connected and he's looking for information, but somebody she was close to is dead. And we later realized, and he realizes that she's not aware of that. So maybe lead with that.

Maybe gently inform her that Tom is dead before you pick at 30 year old ghost.

Eric: Yeah. Yeah. There was really no good way to get into it, though.

Sarah: No. True.

Eric: So, anyway, Steele, who's a little bit put out by her attitude, tells her, look, we're on your side. And she she she bitterly says, oh, yeah. Sure. Just like the agents and the producers. And Steele insists that they are prepared to turn around and go back to Los Angeles and pretend they've never found her.

And she says, really? You you too? She asks Mildred. Mildred shrugs and says, he's the boss.

Sarah: I love that.

Eric: She is just thrilled. Yeah. Over the moon happy. And she she tells him, you know, she's really happy what she's doing, happy where she's at, And she's led a quiet life managing these cabins. Nobody knows she's Billy Young and nobody cares.

She's Chelsea Nash, and that's the way she likes it.

Sarah: And I get the impression that she really means it. Mhmm. Oh, yeah. Like, she's not longing for the spotlight the way Patsy

Eric: Mhmm.

Sarah: Was that she's happy if people have forgotten her because it means that she gets to just be rather than having to perform.

Eric: You know, it's it's I don't know how many people do this, but it's it's like when you get older and you look back on your life and you say, you know, part of me wishes I had done that instead of this.

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: But if I'd done that, you know, I wouldn't have this. I wouldn't have

Sarah: my

Eric: wife or my husband. I wouldn't have my kids. I wouldn't have, you know, these friends and acquaintances. The stuff that I have that I cherish now, I wouldn't have had. Yep.

So, yeah, it was kind of a hard decision at the time, and there's times I kind of wish I could have had that plus this. Yeah. But if I'm if I'm gonna be honest about it, if I'd had that, I wouldn't have had this. So, yeah, I'm good with it. I like this.

So, yeah, I think that's what what she's talking about. I think that's what she's saying. And Mildred, of course, says there's nothing wrong with that. But Steele doesn't respond to what she said, but tells her that he does need to ask her a few questions and says, deal? Deal.

She agrees. And then Steele hesitates and then says, Tom Hogan. Oof. Billy smiles and begins laughing. Oh, so that's how you found me.

That old fogey. Wait till I. But she trails off as she sees

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: The pained look on Mildred's face. She looks back and forth between Mildred and Steele, growing obviously uneasy, nervously asks, what about Tommy? He was killed last night, Steele tells her in a gentle, sad voice. Yeah. And she's shocked, but she's really devastated when Mildred tells her that someone shot him.

She softly cries out his name and then stuttering asks Steele and Mildred to scram for a minute. She needs to walk.

Sarah: And she's so good. Like, the actress is just so good. Like, her face just crumbles, and you just see that, like, oh. Yeah. It's perfect.

Eric: Well, as she walks away from them, Mildred regretfully tells Steele that she feels lousy. Yeah. And Steele looking around spots the LA spotlight van coming down the road and tells Mildred that she's about to feel a whole lot worse.

Sarah: Oof. Yeah.

Eric: In shock, Mildred asks, how did they find him? Miss Holt's doing no doubt, he tells her. Then he instructs her to grab Fred and have him pull a car up about a mile half a mile up the road while he gets Billy, and then they'll rendezvous. Well, Billy's walking through the woods contemplating the news of the loss of her friend. From behind her, just coming to the site, Steele calls to her.

And just as she turns her head in response, there's a gunshot, and a bullet impacts the tree behind her, missing her only as a result of her having turned her head towards Steele. Steele yells at her to get down even though she's already dropped to the ground. Yeah. And in a in a crouch, he runs up to her, grabs her, pulls her over behind a fallen dead log, and then covers her body with with his as more shots are fired. There's a pause in the gunfire, so Steele carefully lifts his head to check out the situation.

But as soon as he does, another shot is fired impacting the log he's hiding behind. He dives down again. Billy congratulates him on his sense of timing. He gently shushes her, waits another moment, then slowly raises his head a second time just in time to see a man running away. Although neither he nor we can see the man's face, from the back, it definitely looks like Jake Slater.

Yeah. Steele tells Billy to stay put. Oh, don't don't worry. She is her son. And and then he begins to give chase to the figure.

But, of course, he doesn't catch the suspect. He arrives back at the road just as a car is peeling out in a cloud of dirt. Steele turns his head back toward Billy, but he notices a fedora lying on the ground. It looks like the hat the fleeing suspect who had been wearing. Steele picks it up to inspect it.

Just as the limo driven by the Fred of the day who's been actually making frequent recent appointments.

Sarah: This is a more, like, a commonly used Fred of the day.

Eric: So Yes. And we still don't know who the actor is. It pulls up with Mildred inside. She rolls down the window and with concern asks, where's Billy? And absolutely Steele remarks, slight delay.

And he hands her the hat to hold and then tells Mildred that he'll get back to her. And he turns back to get Billy. And then we have a missing scene, which, I guess it's it's fine that they took it out. It's just I thought it was interesting. It's the interior of the LA spotlight van.

Laura and Windsor are sitting next to each other as Dennis drives. Windsor, I can't wait to find out what mister Steele has been up to. Laura, trying to disguise her anger, neither can I? Windsor, don't you normally stay in touch during a case? Laura, nothing is ever normal when it comes to mister Steele.

Windsor. Remarkable man. Laura, I can think of 1 or 2 other choice adjectives.

Sarah: Yeah. I could see why they cut it, but it is funny.

Eric: Well, Steele, Mildred, and Billy are back in the back of the limo driving through the streets of Los Angeles or possibly the Hollywood area. Steele peers out the back window and then comments, excellent work, Fred. Not a sign of them for the last 20 minutes. Almost makes up for the fact that you told miss Holt where we were. Next time, don't answer the car phone.

And Fred silently nods.

Sarah: He's probably gotten so many mixed messages from the 2

Eric: of them as

Sarah: to who he's allowed to say stuff to and when. But that poor guy is just like, yeah, sure. Whatever you told me today, that'll be the rule, but tomorrow the rule is gonna be different. Like

Eric: Yeah. And who's the boss today? Okay. You're the boss today. Do we have a schedule as to who's gonna be the boss tomorrow?

Sarah: Poor Fred.

Eric: Yes. Anyway, looking at the passing scenery, Billy comments to no 1 in particular that she swore she'd never come back here. Steele begins to apologize, but Billy cuts him off saying, I know. I know. I need protection.

She cynically chuckles saying, 30 years I lived a quiet life. You show up and all of a sudden I need protection. I seem to recall 1 of the Hollywood legends, I think it was Lloyd Nolan saying something similar to me. Something similar.

Sarah: Yeah. It seems like poor steel has got a bit of a reputation among the Hollywood elite at this point. They're all like, stay away from that guy. You're gonna get shot at.

Eric: And Mildred assures her that it's just till they get to the bottom of things, and they get those news hands off their of her tail. Billy takes a deep breath, lets it out, and then asks Steele why they are trying to use her for target practice. Steele tells her that 30 years ago, another detective was sent to find her. By who? She asks.

Her agent, Lou Mackler. She laughs, ruefully saying, she probably owed him money. Steele tells her that the detective's name was Jake Slater asking if she knows him. Billy shakes her head. No.

Guess he wasn't as good as you, she teases, jamming him inside with her elbow. And Steele thoughtfully says, I wonder. When Billy asks why he says that, Steele pauses and then tells her that he was the man trying to kill her today. Next, Windsor is in Lou Mackler's office as he demands to know what she means Steele isn't cooperating. He and Holt are supposed to be working together.

When are she and Holt are supposed to be? Yeah, somebody somebody's supposed to be working together with somebody. I think I typed something wrong.

Sarah: She told him that he and Holt worked together.

Eric: Yeah. Must have been late night when I was typing that. Anyway, Windsor tells him that she doesn't understand it herself, but Holt said she'd be in touch just as soon as she had an explanation. Anger on his face, Mackler grabs the phone and without even dialing.

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: Instructs the person on the other end to get him the news department.

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: Windsor asks what he's doing, and Mackler angrily reminds her that she asked for 1 chance. She's had it. Now he's bringing in the pros. Oh, she slaps her hands down on the phone, cutting off the call, and insists that this is her story. She earned it.

You're over your head. He hollers at her. Half hollering herself, half pleading. She insists that Lou doesn't understand. This story could do for her what Iran did for Todd Koppel or for Ted Koppel.

Sarah: Yeah. Alright. Here we go once again. For those of you who are playing the home game, because this is like a who's who of of journalism references in this.

Eric: I guess we should have started this by saying drinking game. Every time there's a old media ref person reference, take take a drink. Yeah.

Sarah: To be fair, though, he's the only 1 that is still alive. On 02/08/1940, American broadcast

Eric: So he's a slacker.

Sarah: Best known as the anchor for Nightline from the program's inception in 1980 until 2005. Before Nightline, he spent 20 years as a broadcast journalist and news anchor for ABC. After becoming host of Nightline, he was regarded as 1 of the outstanding serious minded interviewers on American television. Opposed to

Eric: the unserious ones.

Sarah: 5 years after its 1980 debut, the show had a nightly audience of 7,500,000 viewers. And the only thing I know about Nightline, sorry, is a Buffy reference. So here we go, There's an episode where I believe it was Band Candy, where Buffy is like, it's in season 3 and she's basically like trying to avoid her mother finding something out as well as Giles finding something out. So she tells them that she's at either place. So she tells Giles she's spending the night with her mother and she tells her mother that she's got to go to the library.

And when she's caught lying, she's like, Oh, you're here. Oh, okay. Let's watch some TV. I hear there's a very insightful night line on. She turns to go in.

So that's kind of where that that reference of like, I've heard of that. I've heard of that on Buffy.

Eric: So anyway. Well, Windsor and Lou try to stare each other down. After a moment, Windsor takes a deep breath then hesitantly says, she never thought she'd say it, but and she takes another deep breath, lets out a sigh, and then through gritted teeth says, please. Mackler squeezes the phone receiver in his hand as he considers. Without breaking eye contact, he slowly puts the receiver back down into the cradle and with intensity tells her that he wants to know every move she makes because this story is too good to lose.

And Windsor gives a small nod then turns and leaves.

Sarah: And this is why she's so vicious at Laura and at, like, getting getting the story.

Eric: Mhmm.

Sarah: And again, I'm not excusing her because she does some pretty, like, shady stuff, but Mackler is manipulating her the way he is manipulating everybody, and he he knows exactly what she wants and how to use it against her, he's just a piece of slime.

Eric: Yeah. I've I've got a comment to make on that situation here a little bit later, but we'll wait till we get there. Anyway, back at the agency, Steele is sitting on the couch in his office, drinking a cup of coffee or tea, looking over papers laid out on the coffee table before him. Laura comes storming into the office, slams the door behind her, demands to know where is she. And Steele, playing dumb, says, Mildred?

Laura says he knows who she's talking about, and Fred told her that Steele had found her. Then she demands to know what he thinks he's doing. And without looking up, Steele retorts that he was about to ask her the same thing. I've been doing a job, she insists. Yes, he says, still not taking his eyes off the papers in his hand.

A splendid job of self promotion while our case blows up all around us. Well, in disgust, Laura tells him that she knew he was jealous, but she'd had no idea he would go to such lengths to upstage her. Steele finally looks up and responds with growing anger that a killer is on the loose out there, and all she can think about is film at 11. That's ridiculous, Laura yells. Is it?

He challenges, his voice rising. He found Billy alright, and shortly thereafter, somebody takes a shot at her. Laura, who seemed to be ready with a comeback even before Steele had said anything Yeah. Suddenly freezes.

Sarah: Yeah. This is kind of, I think, the moment where she realizes that Steele's not reacting this way because he's jealous or because he cares about the publicity or any of that nonsense. Like and and to be fair, she, again, she didn't know what had happened. So she's reacting to Steel's anger with her own anger that she's kind of like had the whole time. And this is 1 of those they should have been communicating moments, but he didn't have the chance to communicate with her because she was too busy doing her interviews Communicating with her.

So it's like they're both And I guess to be fair on Steele's end, he directs his anger at her only as much as I think it really is deserved. He kind of pulls back when he sees her reaction to his words and how notes that she's contrite, that there's a realization there.

Eric: Well, at this point, she's not contrite yet, but she suddenly realized that, oh, wait a second. This is, you know, it wasn't just that that Tom got shot, but now they're shooting at Billy too. Yeah. You know, this this was totally unexpected. So, yeah, I mean, it it that changes the circumstances for her and she suddenly yeah.

She suddenly realizes that, okay. Well, oh, wow. Maybe there's something more to this than Yeah. Just, you know

Sarah: The energy of the fight changes for sure. And it's going to sound really weird to say this. And I don't know if I should, but I'm going to I'm going to it anyway. Moments of the series where Steele is at his most attractive are the moments like this. And I don't know why this is, but like this next line where he says a woman disappears 3 years later, a slick Los Angeles detective finds her that whole bit.

I don't know. This is maybe something that a lot of fans of the show don't care for, especially fans that like season 1 over later seasons. They prefer the kind of zany drama queen, Mr. Steele, which to be fair, I love him too. But this Steele, this Steele that is older, he feels older here.

And he feels older, for example, in Dancer, Prancer, Donner and Steele when he's sitting there kind of like retelling the story about the sled or shoving Mr. Hastings up against a wall or after he stops the bomb from blowing up and Laura walks and find him in her apartment. Like there's this gravitas to him, this maturity about him, this feeling of this isn't just a zany, campy, kind of silly guy who likes attention. This is a full grown man who's taking responsibility for something that's hot.

Eric: Well, I'm gonna read my next paragraph here, and I'm gonna comment on your comment. Okay. Steele continues, though in a much calmer tone, that a woman, as you said, who disappeared to forget her past is found by a slick Los Angeles detective 30 years later, shattering her privacy, telling her that 1 of her oldest, dearest friends has been murdered, and then exposes her to the killer as well. And then with a sarcastically tinged self loathing says that makes him feel really warm all over. He is he's he's he's not the same light flippant.

No. Yeah. You know? Oh, yeah. That's terrible.

Well, it could have been worse guy. He was a few seasons earlier. He's he's feeling this. Yeah. He he had nothing to do with this.

No. He's feeling responsible. Yeah. Not Remains of Steel season 1.

Sarah: No, it isn't. There's character development here, and I like that. I like seeing character development. I like seeing this growth that he has. And as you said, that self loathing, I mean, it's not his fault, but he's feeling that weight.

And I think that that's what I think is interesting about

Eric: And he still loves to have fun and have a light attitude and play jokes and to tease Laura. But he's got a seriousness to him when it needs to be serious Yeah. That he he he didn't have in the past.

Sarah: Yeah. You can see the weight on him and you can see the fact that this isn't like, this is a man who is in his thirties, who is, like an adult. And I'm not saying he wasn't an adult in season 1, but there was like a childishness to him that was kind of like part of his character. Whereas now we can see that adult man that takes responsibility and feels his mistakes. Like he's allowing himself to feel his feelings when he probably wouldn't have done so in season 1.

And yeah, men take note. That's sexy. You know? But it's also interesting character growth, like aside from the, you know, my own whatever. Like, it's interesting character growth that we see him having this moment.

And he has it to be fair as well in Steel Framed when he thinks he's killed somebody. Yeah. There's that moment of like, I think he's even said something like, it makes you feel warm all over or something like that. I've never killed a man before, but I don't think I care for the feeling.

Eric: Yeah.

Sarah: And I think Laura, that's what shakes Laura out of it the most is his reaction to it. Because that's, I think, the moment where she's like, Oh no, this is not about publicity for him. He really cares. Something really matters.

Eric: I think in Steel Framed, though, he was as much worried about his own skin.

Sarah: Oh, for sure.

Eric: As he was the sense of responsibility of having killed somebody. Whereas here, I think he still feels the same level of responsibility. Yeah. Probably more so.

Sarah: Because he exposed her.

Eric: He he personally isn't in danger at all. No. You know, except as maybe collateral damage.

Sarah: Yeah. And that's, like I said, where Laura kind of realizes, oh, I'm wrong. This has nothing to do with him wanting publicity or being jealous or anything like that. I screwed up. You can see it on her face.

Eric: Yeah. She's remained frozen as he's saying this. And then she slowly moves closer to Steele. She stands behind him, and her attitude has completely changed as has her sense of focus. She surmises that Hogan was likely killed to keep anybody from finding Billy.

Steele turns to look at her, but Laura's not looking at him, but at some idea, maybe in her mind's eye. And she asks, why would the killer go after Billy? She wonders. She looks up at Steele and suggests that perhaps he felt that they were getting too close. And on camera, she had said that they wouldn't stop until they found her.

Steele lets out a deep breath, pursing his lips, raising an eyebrow, and a sort of, that's what I've been talking about gesture. And then there's a stricken look of realization on Laura's face, and she raises her arms to her out to her side and then drops him in kind of a gesture of futility. Yeah. And then with apologetic shame says she doesn't know what to say. And she turns away unable or unwilling to face Steele in her moment of disgrace.

Sarah: I love this.

Eric: And Steele doesn't seem quite sure what to say or how to respond. After a moment, though, he tells her that Mildred has Billy under lock and key at his apartment, and so she's safe for the moment.

Sarah: I think this is another 1 of these, like again, this is the the subtle intimacy of season 4 because Mhmm. In in an earlier season, I think there would have been more She might have been she might have remained slightly more defensive for maybe a little longer. And or he might have said, I told you so. And and

Eric: maybe excused herself even after she accepted it. She would have made a made an excuse because, I mean, after all, he just doesn't he just doesn't understand.

Sarah: Yeah. But and he might have said, I told you so. But he doesn't. He lets it go. He when she says she doesn't know what to say, he he could have said, well, maybe you should tell Billy you're sorry.

Or maybe you should He could have said He could have kept going and he would have been in the right to and Laura would have acknowledged it. But instead, he just kind of like gives her that grace that he doesn't necessarily need to, but realizes that she's going to be punishing herself more than anything he could say anyway. And he knows that she's back on board. He knows that she understands now. He doesn't need to push it.

He just kind of That's why he tells her like, we've got Billy. That's his olive branch. Because he wasn't going to tell her where Billy was unless she truly realized why it was important that they keep her location a secret. So when he gives that to her, it's like him saying, it's okay. We're on the same side now.

We're cool. Which is nice.

Eric: Well, Laura, to get her head back into the game, turns and says that she still doesn't understand why anyone would be killed over all this. Billy must know something. According to Billy, she's an innocent escapee from Hollywood, Steele tells her. But that doesn't make any sense to Laura.

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: Perhaps not, he says. But for the moment, he's been following the only lead they have. He steps over to the coffee coffee table, grabs the fedora, turns and tosses it to Laura, then returns to stand behind his desk. A fedora? She questions.

There would be assassin who was wearing it during his murder attempt up in the mountains. Then he rhetorically asks if she's met anyone recently who might wear a chapeau like that. She ponders a moment and then says, Jake Slater. Mhmm. Incurs.

Then he slides several pieces of paper across his desk in her direction. He's been doing a little background check on Slater. Closed his detective agency in 1956. No report of any income for the past 30 years, yet he's made house payments and paid city taxes on a tidy interest he's earned every year. He sits in his chair looking a bit exhausted.

Sarah: He had to do legwork. Of course, he's exhausted.

Eric: Laura notes the coincidence. He was hired to find Billy in 1956. He claims he can't locate her, but it retires financially comfortable. Blackmail, she suggests. Steele says he thought of that, but just doesn't know.

And he suggests that maybe they should pay Jacob visit. Laura says that she wants to talk to Billy first because there's something about this that doesn't fit. She turns, starts to walk out of the office, but Steele stops her with an o as he picks up the phone and then asks if she wants to call Windsor. She looks at and he got that that was kind of a cheap shot. And he but he just split

Sarah: it in there. More affectionate. I think he realizes that she this is this doesn't feel like he's getting a cheap shot in because she smiles back and she's gentle with him, and he's gentle with her. Like, I think it's

Eric: more of,

Sarah: no, I think it's more of just like they've come to an understanding. And so he feels like he can tease her about it and she's not going to bite his head off. Like, I I really think this is progress. Well,

Eric: she looks at him and then asks, wasn't it Andy Warhol who said that we all get 15 minutes of fame? She pauses and then says, she thinks she's had hers. Steele smiles a slight approving smile, nods a slight approving nod. Laura walks to the door, Steele gets up to follow. Now back at Steele's apartment, Mildred and Billy are sitting on the couch.

There's a fire in the fireplace. On the coffee table between them are several books, a tea caddy with a pot and 2 cups. And out the window, we can see it's night. There are multitude of buildings lit up in the darkness. From the script, a minor little bit, but I wish I had left it in because it's nice.

Mildred asks, why don't you sing anymore? I know it's probably none of my business, but your songs bring back so many memories for me, Billy, Sadly, for me too. I guess maybe that's why. Mildred, compassionate in her voice, asks Billy about Sally Benson. Billy's appearance morphs into sadness as she first thinks about Sally and then begins telling Mildred about her.

Billy says that Sally was a real sweetheart, 1 of the good people. The implication being that there are a lot of not so good people in Hollywood. Yeah. And that Sally was far more talented than she ever realized. And she pauses seemingly disturbed memories.

And then finally, finally in distress, distress in her voice, Billy says, I found her. Mildred looks genuinely surprised. And Bill says, you didn't know that, She pauses again, near breaking down as she revisits the memories that she had spent so many years hiding from. And nearly in tears, she continues saying that Sally looked so cold lying on the bare floor. And all she could think of was, I gotta cover her up.

I gotta keep her warm. I I gotta I she finally breaks and begins crying. Finally choking out. I couldn't.

Sarah: She's so good at this because again, this is a guest character who is having to relive a traumatic event that we've only been told about in like a couple of different, like a couple of lines, a couple of scenes, right? This has like an impact. It feels powerful. It's like when you watch My Girl and you see Have you ever seen that movie, My Girl?

Eric: No.

Sarah: Don't watch it if you don't want to bawl your eyes out at the end. But it's about a little girl named Veda, who is set in the 60s and she has this best friend played by Macaulay Culkin named Thomas Jay. And it's sort of like about her life as her dad runs a funeral home and it's about her trying to kind of like understand and come to terms with death. And her mother died when she gave birth to her. So Veda's got all these questions and she's trying to understand a lot of things because she's only like, I don't know, 10, 11.

And the climax of the film is that, spoiler alert if you haven't seen it, she loses her mood ring in the woods and her best friend, Thomas J, goes back to get it and he's attacked by wasps and he's killed. And there's a scene where they're having his funeral, which of course her dad has arranged because he runs the funeral home and she has to come face to face with death. And she's seen death all the time because she sees the bodies get embalmed and painted and whatever. But this is her best friend and she goes up and she sees him laying there and she breaks down. He needs his glasses.

He can't see without his glasses. It's just like, I showed it to my daughter. And she sobbed for 15 minutes solid after that movie was over just because it was like such an impactful moment to see her. Like this little kid who's looking at her best friend laying in a coffin, he can't see without his glasses. And this reminded me of that.

It made me think of that because we're seeing her lost in that memory and we're having that same visceral reaction that she's having. Like how she's saying she looks so cold, but I couldn't get her warm, I couldn't help her. And that would be just so awful to find your best friend like that and not have any way of like processing it, especially in the fifties when trauma was just covered up with here's some Valium or, you know, suck it up. Alcohol. Yeah, exactly.

Eric: You know, it's, this is another strong guest star story like we had in Steel Blue Yonder. Yeah. Where the, the, the story is, the investigation is is certainly a a significant part of the story, but it's less about Laura and Steele than it is about the guest star's character. And, yeah, it's, it's just a, another 1 where a guest star is just given a fantastic role and they just knock it out of the park.

Sarah: Yep, absolutely.

Eric: Anyway, Mildred gives Billy a moment and then asks, why did she do it? And Billy answers annoyance and hurt inner tone, but not at the question, but at the memory of the circumstance. She says

Sarah: Yeah. Exactly.

Eric: She was pregnant and single. You remember what it was like back then, it didn't help that the guy didn't wanna have anything to do with her. And Mildred asks in surprise, he knew the father? And Billy shakes her head. No.

Sometimes even best friends don't tell. She gives a sardonic chuckle explaining that he probably told her he was going to make her a star.

Sarah: Which is another, it's another, it's a really layered statement because it references both the time period as well as Hollywood itself, as well as the fact that she says to Milton, do you know what it was like back then? And there was that shared history and understanding. But it's also like, if you think about it, if she were a star, she would have money and she would have means. Still you can understand why she would be so terrified. Because it was a different time and single mothers were treated differently.

And there were still barriers to women that weren't in existence that have been since knocked down. And it just feels very like she doesn't have to explain it to Mildred and she doesn't have to explain it to the audience. She says it all in just a couple of sentences. You remember what it was like back then. There are some things best friends don't tell.

Meaning that even back then when she was close to this woman who she loved, there were still secrets that they kept because society told them, don't trust anyone else. Don't reveal this because women are supposed to be this or women aren't supposed to do that or whatever. And it just kind of sums it up in a couple sentences and it's really well written.

Eric: Well, not only that, but you know, she says, well, the, the father didn't want to have anything to do with her. Yeah. She, she wouldn't necessarily want to tell. I mean, you can see where she might want to, in order to, have some help extracting a re a revenge of some sort or, know, getting even with the guy or or just ruining his reputation. But at the same time, can see where she might wanna say it because if she if she revealed it, it would be even worse for her.

Sarah: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And she knew that. And so there's so much like, again, in those 2 sentences, it's it it kind of gives a whole world that we aren't a part of, but that Mildred and and Billy are.

Eric: Yeah. And Mildred gets it because she shakes her head and she's got a disgusted look on her face.

Sarah: I think that's why Mildred had to be the 1 that had that conversation with Billy. Yeah. She couldn't have that conversation with Steele.

Eric: Well, Mildred checks the cups and stands telling Billy that she'll get some more fresh tea. And Billy feeling the first pangs of survivor's guilt, which is really what she's she's having here. So somehow it doesn't seem right. Sally and Tom both gone and I'm still here. Well, Mildred tries to be philosophical saying that life is like that sometimes and there's not much we can do about it.

Pot in hand, Mildred heads to the kitchen for tea, leaving Billy alone with Mildred's words and her own thoughts. And yes, life is like that sometimes and there's not much we can do about it sometimes. Yep. A new resolve comes over Billy. She stands, grabs her jacket, and quietly walks out the front door of the apartment and leaves.

Mildred returns from the kitchen talking to the now absent Billy. She walks into the living room and realizes that Billy isn't in the room. She calls out to her, rushes to the bedroom, peers into the room, does she, Billy, and then turns back to the living room panic on her face.

Sarah: They never should leave Mildred with somebody that needs to be retact

Eric: with you.

Sarah: Because, like, literally everybody she's told to watch, and it's not her fault,

Eric: but they keep getting She

Sarah: every single 1. Every time, Tony and Terry. Like, it just every, every time. It's too bad they didn't let Mildred watch over Bing. Maybe she could have gotten him killed, but, like, no.

Seriously, poor Mildred.

Eric: She The the pep talk she gave to the the newspaper kid with with the yeah. Oh.

Sarah: Yeah. I just feel so bad for Mildred because every time she's asked to look after somebody who's in danger, they either leave or something happens and and they get, you know, for Mildred.

Eric: Well, back from a commercial, Mildred is defending herself, asking the pacing Steele and Laura, what was I supposed to do? Handcover to the coffee table? And Laura, perhaps a bit too harshly, says that no 1 is blaming her. They just have to figure out where Billy could have gone and why, adds. After more pacing, Mildred calls out, back to the lake.

Without her luggage, Laura questions. Out of the past, Steele sites. Robert Mitchum, Kirk Douglas, RKO 1947. Mitchum plays a private detective hired by Douglas to find Jane Greer. He does, only he falls in love with her then doesn't tell Douglas that he found her.

I don't get it, Mildred says. Neither do I exactly, Steele admits, but he has the strong feeling that this revolves around Jake Slater and Billy Young. You got my vote, Laura adds. Well, then what are you guys waiting for? Mildred exclaims.

Laura and Steele head to the front door of the apartment. They open it to leave, but Windsor and Dennis are outside the door. Windsor with microphone in hand, Dennis with camera rolling, the light on top blasting its glare into Steele and Laura as the door opens. That was marvelous. Would you mind repeating that for the camera?

Windsor insists. Harsh look on his face, intense sternness in his voice, Steele informs Windsor that it's not a game anymore. It's deadly serious. Well, Windsor's jocular attitude of the moment earlier suddenly disappears. She is no longer the smiling angelfish, charming those who look upon her.

She is now a piranha ready to devour. With more than a hint of sarcasm in her voice, Windsor says, that makes it news. Detached and cold.

Sarah: Here's the thing. She's not wrong that it it like, murder, what's going on is news. However, being that she doesn't know exactly what's going on and who's at risk and what her actions are, what consequences are going to come of her actions. Yeah, it's news, but it's news that could get people killed. And like there's

Eric: dirty laundry, man.

Sarah: There's the news you tell and the news you hold back. And a good journalist knows the difference. And it's not that I think she could be a good journalist, but she's so twisted by Lou Mackler at the moment who's told her, literally told her that she will never have another shot unless she sticks to them like Lou and doesn't let them get away, that she's not able to see the nuances the way Laura was because she's like seeing her dream go up in smoke. So I do have a little bit of like sympathy for her. I don't think she goes about it correctly.

And I don't agree with her actions, but I think I understand why she's doing them.

Eric: Yeah. Well, when she says that makes it news, steel, detached and cold, corrects her. She says that makes it none of your business, sweetheart. She shoves his way past her in this. Windsor turns to Laura, who's still standing in the doorway.

Her attitude magically changing from piranha back to angelfish. Laura, she prompts, expecting Laura to be compliant. But Laura has steeled herself against the manipulative flattery of Windsor and Dennis, informing Windsor that that won't work anymore. Then she pushes past the 2 dim bulbs from LA spotlight. Windsor turns, stomping after Laura and Steele, insisting that they had a deal.

Deal's off, Laura declares. Since when? Windsor demands to know. Since I realized all the publicity was making me just like you, Laura says. I won't needlessly jeopardize somebody's life for the sake of a story.

And that's as much a statement of self appraisal as an accusation of Windsor's ethics and lack of morals. But Windsor puts her hand out to keep the door elevator door open and apparently wounded by the barb, which hit too close to the heart. Windsor defensively tells Laura not to get sanctimonious with her sweetheart and trying to drag Laura down to her level. She accuses Laura of being more like herself under the skin than Laura's willing to admit.

Sarah: I don't think she's wrong. I I do think they have a lot of similarities. I think the similarities end when it comes to, what we just saw, Laura realizing that her actions were going to harm somebody. But Windsor does come to that realization as well, albeit a little bit later when she understands that Lou Mackler has been manipulating her. But at the surface, you've got 2 women who are in industries that are predominantly dominated by men who have been pushed down and out onto the margins by those industries and have had to claw their way in by doing some ethically questionable stuff.

In Laura's case, creating a fake boss, in Windsor's case, she's doing right now. But I do think that they have similarities. I don't think she's necessarily wrong about that.

Eric: Well, that's like saying that turtles and clams have similarities because they both have shells, but that's superficial. I mean and and here, the similarities are also superficial because Laura has these motivations, but she and and admittedly, has engaged in a little bit of slight of hand, we'll say by creating a fake boss, but it's 1, it's not intended to manipulate people. Well, in the harmful sense, it's not intended to harm them. And she does care about the consequences of her actions. Whereas in Windsor's case, her actions, her motivations are all to manipulate other people, and she doesn't care about the consequences, and she doesn't care if somebody gets hurt.

Sarah: I don't I don't think that that's entirely true. You gotta keep in mind that she doesn't know that Billy was shot at. She doesn't have that information. She doesn't know that they're showing up at at Twin Pines put Billy in danger. And the only murder they're aware of is Tom Hogan.

Well, that's

Eric: isn't that enough? I mean, how many bodies do you have to have before you start feeling a little bit of compassion and understanding that maybe

Sarah: She doesn't

Eric: this situation is something I shouldn't go just running and blabbing every everybody about. I I ought to use a little bit of discretion to maybe work with the people that are in charge of figuring it out so that I'm not like a bull in the China shop.

Sarah: Well, I don't I don't disagree with you. But what I'm saying is, like, I don't think she knows exactly to the extent that things that what she's doing is gonna put people at risk. She because Laura, fairly, neither has steel, they haven't told her. They kind of clammed up the minute they realized that, Hey, wait a minute. This is getting more serious and we're not going to trust her.

So I think that there is And her actions, again, are self serving, but they're also the only way that she knows into the industry. The only way that she can break into the job that she wants to work in, which is news and which this is a news story. I think if she didn't have a moral reckoning at the end the way she does, then she would be completely irredeemable. But I think it's because she has that reckoning at the end and because she does end up keeping Billy's secret that we can see that this is a person who does have some capacity for empathy and does come to understand the consequences of her actions and is capable of being a better person when given the opportunity. Here?

No. Here she doesn't really she she goes for the jugular because this is the only way that she sees her dream.

Eric: Going to

Sarah: jump

Eric: ahead on this because you just did, but drag me along with it. First of all, like I said, how many bodies do you have to have before you start pulling back on your aggressiveness? Secondly, I hadn't thought about this till you just said this. Is Bill is, Windsor's action at the end to not tell about finding Billy, is it really to respect Billy's wishes to not, you know, be brought out into the spotlight, not to be dragged through the media hype? Is it really about that, or is it about Windsor trying to protect herself from letting it be known that she got used, she got manipulated.

That think it is. She I I I I don't think you can dismiss it as a possibility. I mean Think about it. Based on based on her action throughout the rest of the episode up to the very end. I I I don't think you can say that's off the table.

Sarah: Okay. But think about it this way. Lou Mackler is responsible for not just what he did to Windsor, but what he did to Billy and what he did to Sally. And, like, he's a twisted

Eric: Mhmm.

Sarah: Evil, egomaniacal a hole. And if she had revealed Billy's whereabouts, Billy likely would have had to testify or be dragged into whatever court cases were going on that would bury Lou even further.

Eric: By the technique. Windsor would have to admit her foolishness and her gullibility at having been manipulated. Hear

Sarah: me out here. Hear me out here, though. Because at the end of the day, she would want to see Lou Mackler buried. If I were her, I would want to see his reputation dragged through the mud as I wouldn't give a crap. Because admitting, yeah, you were used is crappy and embarrassing.

But if it puts him even further under, if it gets him even more bad press and it shows what a hideous slime scum piece of human that he was, I would want that known because it would mean that he would get what he deserves.

Eric: No. At this point, he's already at this point, he's already getting what he deserves. Anything further would be dancing on the grave of a dead man, so to speak. It doesn't accomplish anything.

Sarah: Because, mean, she did it.

Eric: Wimpser's getting everything she wants without having to embarrass herself, without having to admit her failings and her her flaws and her inability to read people.

Sarah: I don't know. I think it

Eric: was She gets everything she wants. Lou Mackler is buried dead, metaphorically speaking. He's he's he's toast. He's he's over. She's got everything he she wants as far as he's concerned.

And by not revealing that they found Billy, she doesn't have to admit that she got manipulated.

Sarah: I'm gonna go with the other. I'm gonna go with my interpretation of this 1 just because, like, I I feel like trying to find Billy, he wants to find Billy so he can shut her up. If, and if, and by exposing that, that would make him even worse. It just adds to the pile. And if it were me, I would want this guy's career.

This is like a Harvey Weinstein thing. I would want him just gone.

Eric: He's he's already there. I mean, he's and like I said, it it would be it it's gilding the lily. It's already it's over. It's done. And adding more dirt to the top of a grave doesn't doesn't make the band any deader.

Sarah: Plus it would it would give more credibility to her career to be able to expose that Hollywood scandal, to be the 1 on camera saying, you know, this is what happened. This is what happened to Billy Young. I have the answers. She doesn't do that. She could.

It elevate her profile.

Eric: I don't think so.

Sarah: Even bad publicity is good publicity, especially if you can unearth more.

Eric: Don't know. Ask Caraldo Rivera about that.

Sarah: Even if you can unearth more Hollywood mysteries, that would that would I don't know. That would do well for her, but she doesn't.

Eric: I don't think so.

Sarah: She keeps Billy's secret. So I think there is a redemption arc. I think narratively, there's meant to be a redemption arc for for her here.

Eric: I'm sorry. I'm not gonna give it to her. I'm not gonna give it to her. I refuse.

Sarah: Have to

Eric: ask the

Sarah: steel watchers.

Eric: Anyway, back to the episode. After Windsor accuses Laura of being more like her than the skin than Laura's willing to admit, Laura Windsor dead in the eye and tells her, I don't think so. And she reaches out, pulls Windsor's hand from the door frame, which allows the elevator door to close. Windsor turns from the elevator toward Dennis, a look of disbelief on her face, like, how could she do that to me? I'm Windsor.

And Dennis asked, well, what do we do now? And in disgust, Windsor tells him, they take the stairs. Now in the original script, it is slightly different. Oh, okay. And I'm conflicted as to whether they should have gone with this or not.

Laura says deals off. Windsor says since when? Laura says since I realized that all this publicity was making me just like you, valuing a story more than the people involved in it. So that changes Laura's line a little bit.

Sarah: Okay.

Eric: Windsor says, don't get sanctimonious with me, sweetheart. We're more like under the skin than you're willing to admit. Laura says, I don't think so. And Windsor says, you're just as ambitious as I am, just as manipulative, only you've got a glamorous boss to hide behind, and I don't.

Sarah: I mean, I I like that they cut Laura's line only because I think that it's overkill. I think it was obvious. I don't think that line is necessary. I think we we as the audience are smart enough to understand it without her saying that.

Eric: Mhmm. But it's it's Windsor's last line that

Sarah: I Windsor's line is interesting because she obviously doesn't know that Laura's not hiding behind Steele, but that comment about, like, you're just as ambitious and you're just as like, that is true. Mhmm.

Eric: But she is in a way, Laura is hiding behind a glamorous boss because that's the whole point of Remy to steal. Yeah. Some ways, it's kind of a reminder to the audience, especially the newer audience that didn't pick up show on season 1 Yeah. That, hey, this is this is really what's going on here. Laura is manipulative.

She does have a glamorous boss that she's hiding behind. And okay. The the

Sarah: I kinda like that line. I wish they kept Windsor's line.

Eric: Yeah. The the the way they go about it is different, but and they're they're the the ethics they have surrounding it as far as collateral damage is different. But, yeah, there there's still because that would have reinforced that you you we're really more like under the skin than you wanna admit.

Sarah: Yeah. Exactly.

Eric: Philosophy. So, anyway, it's still night. My body's still weak. I'm still on the run. No time to sleep.

At Jake Slater's house, we see him with a suitcase as he walks toward a hall closet. Just as he opens the closet door and reaches in, we hear a noise as if somebody's sliding open a window or perhaps moving some furniture around in his house. He reaches down, pulls up the bottom of his sweater, and pulls his gun out of his pants. Wait. That sounds wrong.

He pulls a revolver out of his waistband of his pants and then demands to know who's there. He pulls the hammer back on the revolver, cocking it. That's an important thing to keep in mind. Yep. He slowly walks into the darkened living room, and we see that Billy is standing in the shadows up against the wall as Jake walks past her.

Jake calls out, who is it? And then Billy, who's now behind him, answers, hello, Jake. And Jake turns to face her, gun still out in front of him, now pointed in her direction, and he greets her simply with her name, and Billy says, long time. With a hit hint of sadness and still holding the gun on her, Jake tells her that she shouldn't have come. Billy steps out, raises her arms gesturing, saying she was just curious, wondering how he'd look after all these years, adding, I guess time caught up with both of us.

With mounting anger, Jake hisses, you're crazy to be here. I also wondered how I'd feel, she tells him, if I'd hate you as much as I've hated you for so long. She gives out with a low chuckle as she walks past him commenting that she doesn't. In fact, she doesn't feel a thing. She laughs a bit louder this time adding, ain't that a kick?

She turns to face him and then with intensity declares, the man who destroyed me, and I don't feel a thing.

Sarah: You know what? This is gonna sound really bizarre in terms of pop culture references.

Eric: Mhmm.

Sarah: This reminds me of a Taylor Swift song. And I'm not

Eric: a Really?

Sarah: No. I'm okay. So I'm not a huge Taylor Swift fan, but my daughter loves her. Okay?

Eric: And We have a closet Swifty here, people. Mean Consider all your Taylor Swift stuff. Please don't.

Sarah: I I like a few of her songs. I'm not a Swifty by any stretch of the imagination, but my my my daughter, Kira, likes she's got a bunch of CDs. And 1 of the songs that this, when she said that I thought of the song, it's called I forgot that you existed. And like, I'm just going to read some of the lyrics here. Cause sometimes when I hear songs, think of like TV shows or I think of movies and stuff like that.

Okay. The first verse, like how many days did I spend thinking about how you did me wrong, wrong, wrong? Lived in the shade that you were throwing till all of my sunshine was gone. I couldn't get away from you in my feelings more than Drake. Your name on my lips tongue tied, free rent living in my mind.

But then something happened 1 magical night. I forgot that you existed. And I thought that it would kill me, but it didn't. And it was so nice, so peaceful and quiet. I forgot that you existed.

It isn't love. It isn't hate. It's just indifference. And that just kind of like summed up in my head how like this scene where she confronts, because this really is the man that completely destroyed her life.

Eric: And

Sarah: would wonder, 30 years go by, you'd wonder how would I feel if I saw this person again? Would I be overcome with rage? Would I be overcome with sadness? Like, this was a man she thought she was deeply in love with. And she sees him and it's just like, no, I don't Like, you're nothing.

You're completely And it's probably because she's built this life for herself that gives her peace. And that's probably like, she obviously still feels those old ghosts of what happened to Sally. And that trauma is still with her. But Jake, he's nothing. Because she has something in her life that matters to her.

Like, it's not a person. It's just like her peace, her existence without all of that pressure. And so, yeah, it just made me think of that song. But I also, I love that line. Like, she just says like, I'm not even gonna kick the man who destroyed me and I don't feel anything.

Eric: I mean, it's kind of like, you know, people think that if you say that you don't like somebody that you're saying you hate them. Yeah. It's not the same thing. Hate is an active feeling. Yeah.

Whereas I don't like you is just simply I don't have any affection for you. I don't have any affection or attitude against you. I just simply I don't like you.

Sarah: It's probably even worse, like to be told by somebody, I don't care anymore. Like, I don't even I don't I don't hate like, you don't matter enough for me to even hate you.

Eric: Yeah. Yeah. You know, like, that's got to suck. Yeah. Yeah.

It's like that old old line that they use in in some movies or TV shows. You know, are you going to come now? He's not even worth the bullet.

Sarah: Right? Exactly. Like, that's pretty much what she's telling him here. Like, I thought I would hate you, but you know what? No, you're not even.

Yeah.

Eric: So, Well, Jake, who hasn't moved, turns to face her and with apparent regret tells her that he meant to come back. And of course, oh, sure you did, Jake. Sure, she mocks. Yeah. And then she pauses and then accuses him of having killed Tommy.

And then she asks, why did he have to do it? He was such a harmless little guy. And the momentary regression into regret now gone, Jake becomes more aggressive in his tone saying that the pipsqueak wouldn't shut up. He just went over there to scare him off, but he knew who Jake was, presumably from Billy's letters, but he just wouldn't shut up. And Billy, undoubtedly, knowing the answer, asks if he's gonna kill her too, like he tried in the woods.

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: And he gives a very slight shake to his head and says, this isn't the way you wanted it, but he's gotta protect his investment. And he pulls the hammer of the revolver back. Wait a minute. That's not how revolvers work. Pull it back.

It's cocked. You don't have to pull it back a second time.

Sarah: I know.

Eric: In fact, you can't pull it back a second time.

Sarah: This is probably a separate like, you know how they do all

Eric: kinds of

Sarah: takes to, like, get coverage or whatever. Probably just forgot that he'd already caught this.

Eric: Although it's in the script. Anyway, second, what investments? He has no investment in this.

Sarah: Well, is

Eric: his best. There is no investment in blackmail except by the person paying the blackmail.

Sarah: Which is Lou Mackler. So if she exposes him, then she exposes Jake and he loses his money. Mhmm. The way investment. Yeah.

Eric: Just then, there's a persistent knock at the door and the sound of Steele yelling, Slater. Slater, open up. Well, Jake and Billy look toward the door momentarily and then back at each other. Slater decocks the revolver and with a malicious grin tells Billy, some other time, doll. And he turns and runs out the back.

As Billy shakes her head in disbelief, Steele breaks open the front door, and he and Laura rush in. They run into the living room and finding Billy ask in turn if she's alright. And then where's Jake? Yes. She's fine.

And Jake went out the back. Steel and Laura turned to give chase, pause as Billy calls after Steel. He turns asking, yeah. What? And she says, very unemotionally, nail the creep.

Sarah: Yeah. And I I like that because, I mean, you could you could make the argument that Billy was obstructing justice by not because she obviously knew that Jake was involved in this. She's been hiding all of this, even with her conversation with Mildred and stuff like that. But I think that this was necessary for her. She had to come face to face with Jake, whether she ended up dead or not.

This was something she needed to do for Sally, for herself, for 30 years worth of regrets and what ifs. Like she needed to do that before she could let anybody else know all of the stuff that happened. Right? And now that she's gotten that weight off of herself, nail the creep. It's great.

I love it.

Eric: Well, and then Steele grins and points at her in a you got it gesture. And then he and Laura rapidly assume their exit or rapidly resume their exit. You know, for I'm I'm gonna just the next portion, I'm just gonna read from the script because it's so well done.

Sarah: Okay. Fair.

Eric: Exterior alley night. As Remington and Laura burst from Jake's back door, they look both ways down the alley. At the far end, they see Jake climbing a fence that will take him to the street. They run for him. Jake.

Too much booze, too many cigarettes, and too many years. He makes the fence, but is puffing hard and sweating a river when he gets to the other side. He runs out into the street. Lauren Remington. Hit the fence in full stride and take it without losing a step.

How to be young again. Exterior street. Night. Jake still has a good lead as he runs down the middle of the deserted street. Laura and Remington spot him as he runs through a pool of light from a street lamp.

As they run into the street, the LA spotlight van passes by and screeches to a stop. Windsor and Dennis jump out as Laura and Remington continue the chase. Jake, camera leads him, so we see not only his physical agony as he holds his side and pants along, but also Yeah. Remington, Laura, Windsor, and Dennis gaining in the background. He turns to take a shot at them, but can barely hold the gun up, let alone squeeze the trigger.

Extra baggage, he doesn't need. He drops the gun into the gutter and runs into the exterior park. Night. Too late for children. The swings, monkey bars, and teeter totters sit empty as Jake runs for them.

He gets as far as the swings and stops. Something isn't right. Jake. He tries to take some deep breaths, but he can't get in any air. A bolt of pain hits the old a bolt of pain hits the old dick in the chest.

Clutching at it. A look of agony passes over his face, then it's gone, and Jake Slater slips to the ground, dead. Back to the scene. Laura and Remington are first to arrive. Laura checks for a pulse.

None. She looks up to Remington and shakes her head. Remington seems sobered. Now I have only 1 complaint about that sequence. Starting at this point, we see the van driving around with what I believe is their transmission antenna raised.

I mean, it's it's a good 4 feet or so tall. And I can't believe that any news crew van would be running around with that thing in the up position. I mean, the only reason for it to be up there, sticking up in the air is that they're transmitting. And I highly doubt that they would be transmitting while driving.

Sarah: Is Kyle or Dennis operating it? Because I don't think they're the sharpest crayons in

Eric: the No. The thing is Windsor's driving, which we find lighter.

Sarah: No, I mean the antenna. The antenna

Eric: itself. Oh, Yes. Well, I'll I'll agree that they're not the sharpest tools in the shed. I will agree with that. Anyway, Windsor and Dennis run up to join them.

Windsor gapes open mouth at the scene and then rotate, Dennis, Windsor orders. I want a 3 shot of us around the body. Steele stands. Laura remains crouched over Jake's remains. Look of horror on her face.

She glances up at Steele and then looks around at the ground around her. Steele, Windsor standing next to him, stares at Windsor, a look of incredulity on his face as he as she fluffs her hair so she can look glamorous as she gleefully wallows in the ruins of other people's lives. Laura, having

Sarah: It is a new story.

Eric: Stop defending her. I'm not. I'm just Okay. Reporters

Sarah: have to have a certain level of ghoulishness about them. They're like ambulance chasers in a way because they appear on the scenes of these horrific tragedies and they chase them around because there's this belief of if it bleeds, it leads. And I'm not saying it's right, but that's kind of like the job description. So I don't think that she's looking at it the same way they are. And anybody with We're obviously meant to sympathize with Steele and Laura.

I do because the right thing to do is to not exploit that. But at the same time, is a murder story. And I mean, his death isn't a murder, but that is news. Like, it just I don't know. I see both sides of it.

I see why they are so horrified that she's I think it's more that she's excited about it than it is necessarily the actual story itself.

Eric: Yes. See, that's part of the problem. She's excited about it. Plus, why do you need to show the body after you just found it? I mean, you don't need even need to show the body.

Sarah: You don't need to. But audience like, the sensationalism of news, right? Like, that's how if it it bleeds, it leads. That's what what news stations would would do. Like, the more gruesome, the better.

Like, if you think about all of these tragedies that happens, they get these names. Like there was a mass shooting in the eighties in Canada and the news team termed it the Montreal massacre. Right? Like there's this, I don't know, the sensationalizing of horrific and tragic events that even now we see this and it doesn't I don't know. There's a ghoulishness to reporting and being a journalist that I think

Eric: Dirty laundry. Dirty laundry. Anyway, Laura, having found a sturdy length of tree branch stands, runs over toward Dennis and smashes the branch into the light on top of the camera. Sparks fly as the light flashes bright in a fraction of a second before its own dark death. Steele looks at Laura, look of shock on his face, but Windsor is livid.

I'll have your license, she shrieks. Laura, no longer willing to be flattered or bluffed by Windsor, challenges her, dares her to just try it. Windsor puts her hands on her hips and an almost confused look now on her face seems ready to respond, but before she can, screams rend the quiet of the night. Billy, Steele calls in a panic. He and Laura take off at full speed back toward Jake's house.

Running into the house through the back door, Laura and Steele quickly make their way to the darkened living room where Billy is lying on her back on the floor gasping, choking, coughing. They raise her to a sitting position, but unable to speak, she begins frantically pointing at the front door. Laura stays to comfort Billy as Steele turns and runs out the front door. And as he exits a car, specifically a Mercedes 500 SCL, for those who really need to know, spills out of the driveway, spins 90 degrees to point down the street, and then races away. Steele also races, but to the opposite.

As he's getting in yes.

Sarah: I always forget which episode this is in this is in, but it's 1 of my favorite moments when he's because he it's right when the car gets to the end of the cul de sac. Right? And he that car turns just fine, but still gets to the end of the cul de sac. And he's like, nope, not able to do it. So he's having to do this

Eric: 3 radius. It's point like,

Sarah: I wish I get what episodes what episode it's in. And then when it pops up, I'm like, I love that line

Eric: because yeah. Well, as he as Steele is getting into the Auburn, the LA spotlight van pulls up and Dennis hops out of the passenger store. Steele hits the accelerator on the Auburn and takes off. Windsor, not to be denied, follows suit, leaving Dennis on the street hollering after her. Now the chase runs through neighborhood streets, the Mercedes followed by the Auburn and making the occasional appearance, the awkward maneuvering news van.

Steele has trouble negotiating the corners from time to time running up over the curb and onto the sidewalk in his frantic efforts to keep pace with the smaller, more nimble car. The chase goes into a cul de sac. The driver in the lead car being able to quickly and easily turn around and exit with minimum difficulty, but still in the Auburn, not so much. He tries to turn the car around in 1 quick smooth motion but runs out of room. He groans, curses the lousy turn radius of the classic car, has to back up in order to complete the 1 80.

The quarry is backtracking, weaving through the streets. But coming up from the opposite direction, so far behind that she's actually now in front, is Windsor in the news van. As the Mercedes races toward her, the Auburn behind, she maneuvers the van into the path of of the Mercedes, forcing the driver to swerve wildly, resulting in a loss of control, which sends the car careening through an LA spotlight billboard on the front of a fence, which somehow manages to destroy the power pole behind it, which is several feet beyond the fence Yeah. Causing sparks to fly from the top even though the car has not yet broken through the fence. And even if it had, the sparks wouldn't fly until the power lines were broken, and that wouldn't happen until the power pole had collapsed, which it hadn't.

I'm sorry. I I that was that was that was unnecessary of me. I apologize, but it's just funny. Anyway, Steele pulls up next to Windsor and the van. The 2 of them get out, and Steele races to the Mercedes, which is now draped under high power electric lines.

He picks up a broken piece of the fence, throws the power lines from the car, and as Windsor comes running up, Steele steps over and opens the driver's door of the car. Steele is gobsmacked. The unconscious driver is Lou Mackler. Windsor states that she recognized the car and realizes that he was using her. And she had told him where Billy was.

Sarah: Yeah. And again, I'll argue for her humanity here because I think that realization that she almost got Billy killed causes her, I think it plays into why she doesn't reveal her identity later on because you don't, it's 1 thing to be embarrassed and humiliated that you were used. It's another thing to realize that you could have been the reason that somebody was murdered. I I I don't think she's that heartless. I really don't think she's that evil.

Again, think

Eric: she's just portrayed her as being self interested in

Sarah: this by

Eric: not revealing Billy's location, not revealing that they found Billy because it protects her.

Sarah: No. I I think it's more about how

Eric: Protects her. She could she was she had some responsibility in in the deaths of 1 person and the almost death of another person. And so by not revealing Billy, she can kind

Sarah: of sweep

Eric: part of that under the rug.

Sarah: Oh, it's the same reason that Steele doesn't reveal where Billy is or Laura doesn't reveal where Billy is. They feel guilty.

Eric: Motivations are totally different. Don't know. I don't

Sarah: think it I don't think it is. I think it's that that realization, that moment where she's like, oh my god. I could have hurt somebody, and I don't wanna do

Eric: for Steele and Laura, not revealing Billy's location is compassion for Billy. It has nothing to do with their own self interest. I Windsor, it's all self interest.

Sarah: I don't think so. I think there's there's compassion here, especially when she hears Billy tell her story in the next scene.

Eric: No. No. No. But you're allowed to be wrong. Want emails.

Sarah: Want emails. Tell us who's right.

Eric: In Steele's office, Billy is recounting more of the story as Mildred Steele, Laura, and Windsor look on. After Sally's death, she took off for the mountains. 1 forget everything, but a man found her, she says, handsome, smooth. Jake Slater, Lauren interjects. Billy nods.

At first, he said he was a truck driver. They fell in love, or at least she did, Billy clarifies. And she fell in love harder than she ever thought possible. After a few days, he told her the truth that he was a detective and that Lou Mackler had hired him to find her and recover Sally's diary. Sally didn't have any family, and Billy had inherited most of her stuff.

When Windsor asks why the diary, Billy says that Jake didn't seem to know why. He had just been sent to get it, and Billy hadn't read it, so she had no idea either. So they read it. She pauses and Mildred prompts her. Well, Billy continues telling them that Lou Mackler had gotten Sally pregnant.

He didn't wanna marry her. He was gonna marry some rich broad as Billy puts it. But Sally was gonna have the baby anyway and insisted that Lou be responsible as the father. Well, Steele realizes that Sally Benson didn't commit suicide. Laura states that Lou Mackler had her killed or Lou Mackler killed her in order to keep his career on track.

Billy adds that Lou had forgotten that Sally kept a diary until later. Melder doesn't understand why she and Jake just didn't go to the police with their information. She was in love with Jake, and it wouldn't have done any good, he said. He he told her the diary wouldn't prove anything. And even if it did, it wouldn't bring Sally back.

So they decided to hit Lou where it would hurt him the most. And so Jake covered Billy's trail, wiped out every trace of her former life, set her up at Twin Pines, took the diary and went back to Los Angeles to start the blackmail, telling Billy that he'd be back for her within the week and that they'd be together.

Sarah: And this is an interesting conclusion to the triumvirate because you've got 3 women in this story that have all done questionable things to protect themselves or to gain something. In Billy's case, she covered up the murder of her best friend, which is a guilt she's been carrying for 30 years because she thought it was going to get her the man that she loved. And she thought it was going to get peace of mind away from Hollywood, away from all the other stuff.

Eric: Well, and she she thought that the only consolation she could get out of the situation besides the man that she loved was the money. Because as she said, reporting Jake or reporting Lou Mackler for the murder wasn't going to bring Sally back.

Sarah: Yeah. And I'm not like just saying, like, she did something ethically questionable as well. And they all exist on different levels. I'm not trying to put them all on the same level, but it's clear

Eric: It's clear down at the bottom. Absolutely down at the bottom.

Sarah: It's clear that narratively we're supposed to see the parallels of these women who have all been manipulated by a system, have all been sort of like forced to make difficult choices, choices that don't have a perfectly ethical answer to them. And now they're all in the same scene. And it's just interesting the way that the script does this.

Eric: Well, as Billy is saying that Jake said he'd be back and they'd be together, she breaks down into tears. And of course, Steele concludes that Jake never came back for And Mildred asks Billy why she didn't tell him this before. And through her tears, Billy confesses that it was shame. Yeah. She'd betrayed her best friend.

She was betrayed. She'd lost everything, and she'd hated herself for it ever since. But had she really betrayed her best friend? I don't think so. I really don't think so.

I think that's her interpretation.

Sarah: That way, because I think that in her mind, the betrayal was not exposing Lou. Because if Lou has murdered her best friend, who's going to stop him from murdering somebody else that gets out Who's of going to stop him from doing it to the next woman that he impregnates and then is inconvenient about wanting to keep the child or what have you. Like there is an element of danger to Lou Mackler that was never exposed and was allowed to continue. And so for Billy, that probably was something that, and maybe her best friend is the type of person, because I know if it was me, if somebody killed me, I'd want that a hole put in jail. So by allowing Lou Mackler to just simply be blackmailed, it still allowed him to build an empire.

He still got filthy, stinking rich. He still ended up on top of the pyramid. Like, there wasn't really too much in the way of consequences for him. So I think that's where the guilt comes from.

Eric: Yeah. But in a in a practical sense, she really didn't betray Sally. She just felt like she did.

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: But anyway, Laura shakes her head sadly commenting that for all these years, Jake was bleeding Lou and Lou thought it was Billy. And Windsor, who is, according to my notes here, if I can believe my own notes, who has finally started showing a touch of humanity, realizes that when she suggested TV reunion week, Lou saw his chance to get his hands on the woman he thought had been blackmailing him for 30 years, and she played right along. And as loathe as

Sarah: I There's regret there. There's regret there.

Eric: As loathe as I am to defend Windsor, the fact is she didn't realize what was going on, so she was essentially an innocent dupe. That doesn't excuse her for her attitude, her behavior, her handling of anything. It doesn't excuse her for being Windsor. I mean, she could have done more research. Okay.

And maybe maybe she would have discovered the connection from Billy Tullow through Sally Benson. But, you know, and I guess it. Might still not have been enough to be curious about the connection. But I mean, she didn't even

Sarah: You've also got Lou Mackler picking up the phone and threatening, I'm going to call and get someone else to do it. I'm going to kick you off this. You're never going to get near this job again if you don't do exactly as I say, how I say it when I say it.

Eric: Yeah. The only thing I'll forgive her for is for being a dupe. Nothing else.

Sarah: Think there's real regret I think she genuinely feels bad for the part she played. And I think he's

Eric: far as how it might have impacted her career. But

Sarah: I don't think so. I think she could have reported it the the way it happened, and it would have been better for her career. She would have exposed a

Eric: huge scandal. I think everything she does is a manipulation. I think this scene is a manipulation. I think what she does later is a manipulation. She is a manipulator.

Sarah: Pure and simple. If we did that Buffy podcast, there'd be some arguments. There'd be chairs thrown. It would be just like Jerry Springer.

Eric: Anyway. Anyway, yes. Steele lets out a long breath and tells Windsor, I guess you got your story. Laura says that she, for 1, will be very anxious to hear how Windsor reports it as she gives the woman a warning look. Well, on the screen of a small television, we see Windsor reading the conclusion of her story.

And so after 30 years, the truth behind actress Sally Benson's death is finally known. Ironically, the murder of Benson was uncovered during an LA spotlight search for Benson's longtime friend, Billy Young. The whereabouts of Young, a former Showtime cavalcade star, remains a mystery. This is Windsor Thomas, News Watch 6. I guess the sign off of News Watch 6 means that she got moved from fluff.

Sarah: Yep. Yeah.

Eric: Anyway, as the story on television concludes, we pull back to see that we are in Billy's cabin. And as Windsor signs off, Billy clicks the remote turning off the television. She sits down the remote on a coffee table and then satisfied look on her face, picks up a scrapbook full of photos and begins to flip through the pages.

Sarah: We have a comment.

Eric: I'm gonna say that's probably the first time in 30 years that she's opened that book.

Sarah: Oh, probably. Absolutely. We have a comment, Buffy Podcast throwing chairs. Sign me up. Some comedy there.

But yeah, no, I definitely think this is probably the first time she's been able to look at those pictures without feeling that weight on her chest, that guilt. Mhmm. And just looking at them, not just with without the weight, but with genuine fondness.

Eric: Yes. But isn't it interesting that she kept it?

Sarah: Yeah.

Eric: She could have gotten rid of it because she got rid of everything else in her life that reminded her of what had happened. Yep. But she kept the book.

Sarah: Yeah. Interesting. It is interesting.

Eric: Anyway, next. Do you

Sarah: know what do you know what else is interesting? That fur fricking coat Laura's wearing. What is going on with that coat?

Eric: That is I'm sorry. That's horrendous.

Sarah: Okay. So first of all, it looks like something that Windsor would wear. And secondly, I'm sorry. I know that LA can get cool at night. I get it, but I'm a Canadian.

Okay? And I cannot fathom needing a coat like that in Southern California.

Eric: You know what she needed? She needed really big dark sunglasses, a huge hat with a feather sticking out so she looked like a pimp.

Sarah: It just feels like such a bizarre fashion choice for Laura for so many reasons. 1, it drowns her. Disappears. Could put 5 of her in that coat. 2, the shoulder pads are up to here.

Okay. 3, it's Southern California. Who needs a fur coat like that in Southern California? I don't need a fur coat like that in Southern Ontario. And it's damn cold outside.

Okay. We have never seen her wear anything like that before, and we never see her wear anything like that again. That is probably the worst Laura fashion faux pas for the entire series. I'm I'm I'm claiming it. It's that coat.

That is hideous.

Eric: But I mean, can't you see that on on on a pimp? Yeah. That's like

Sarah: a really terrible choice for Laura. Like, what is going on?

Eric: Well, it's night. Laura and Steele are walking. They're next to a river or maybe a lake, perhaps strung back toward 1 of the cabins at Billy Young's campground. And Steele says, you're quiet tonight. And Laura admits that she was just thinking about the way she acted when she was in the spotlight.

Steele says, oh, as if he was expecting her to give some other reason. But given the topic, he consoles her saying, it's a bit troubling to find out how easily we can all be seduced by the camera. And it's interesting that he doesn't make it exclusive about her, but inclusive. Yeah.

Sarah: He he chooses to go for again, go for Grace. Like, doesn't he he could. He could needle her. He could tease her. He could do that thing that he does that you kind of think this is why she doesn't sleep with you still.

This is why he doesn't do that. Instead, he's sort of like gentle with her, which is very sweet.

Eric: Yeah. Laura asks why he didn't pull her aside and shake her back to her senses. I kind of think he did.

Sarah: He tried.

Eric: Playing along with her revisionist history of the recent events, Steele asks, would it have done any good for him to try? And Laura tells him that sometimes it's frightening how well he knows her. Yeah. Grinning, he tells her, how about a real scare? And then without warning, he turns, wraps his arms around her, pulls her in for a long kiss, and we freeze.

Sarah: I got a question. How did he find her in that coat? How did he find where she was? But putting that aside, that last exchange too is also really telling because when she says, Why didn't you pull me aside and shake me? He says, would it have done any good?

He sort of did, but he did realize, and he said it to Mildred, like, it's not gonna work coming from me. And he knew that. Right? And then she acknowledges And

Eric: he also understood that it wouldn't work even coming from Mildred.

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. And then she then says, it's frightening how well you know me, which is a really, again, that small intimacy, that acknowledgment that he knew her so well that his attempting to intervene would have been only it would have only made things worse. Yeah. So it's really and then of course, the hideous coat thing,

Eric: but the

Sarah: kiss is nice, just the coat. Why? Anyway.

Eric: Well, it gives them a place to both stay warm and

Sarah: Yeah, she can put it around both of them.

Eric: That's

Sarah: right. Can make a tent out of it.

Eric: Anything else?

Sarah: Just that anything following sensitive steel would have been a really heavy lift. And this episode manages to do it. I think this is a, this is a good 1. It's 1 of those ones. It's kind of like steel blue yonder.

I always forget how much I like it until I rewatch it. Then I'm like, oh no, I really like this 1. So yeah. All right.

Eric: On the website, www.steelwatching.com, you'll find show notes, Amazon links to Sunset Boulevard out of the past, and I'll go ahead and throw in wait for your laugh. And you'll find links to other resources such as

Sarah: The Facebook page, the Twitter, and the Instagram page, as well as the officially unofficial Remington Steele, Steel Watchers Facebook group, which you should join, become a part of, laugh, cry, agree with me, tell Eric he's wrong, whatever. Whatever floats your goat.

Eric: Float your goat?

Sarah: Yeah. Floats your goat. That's a saying, isn't it?

Eric: No, it's float your boat.

Sarah: Email us. No. I'm kidding. I always say float your goat because I like it.

Eric: And you'll also find ways that you could support the show with, your financial contributions or have your friends who are not yet listeners and subscribers and followers add that podcast to their favorite podcast player.

Sarah: Well, now we're a pyramid scheme. Thanks a

Eric: lot. Oh, yes. Alright. Next time, steal at your service.

Sarah: The butler did it.

Eric: No, the butler didn't do it. The butler did died it. He he did it. Dided. I will see you next time everybody.

Bye bye.

Sarah: Bye.